>>What kind of examples would you like? G-d gave us the Torah, and it is up to us to interpret it. <

My problem is not with different intgerpretations.  That should be expected.  My problem is when the oral contradicts what is written or when it requires something that the written does not mention.<

The Oral Torah neither contradicts nor does it mention something that doesn't exist in the Written Torah. Why? Because the Written Torah contains the instruction of not adding nr taking away anything from the Torah. If anything the Oral Torah supplements the Written Torah by defining the intent of Hashem whe his Torah says things about sabctifying the Sabbath or preserving it and keeping it Holy. These are things which you Xtians overlook and ignore. But that is OK since Hashem never intended the Torah for you. And to make sure of that, He gave us the Torah in both a written and Oral form to make sure of it. So you took the Written the Torah but you could never get the Oral Torah since it was not committed to writting but nly to the memories of the Sages to whom Hashem, through the mouth of Moses, gave it for safekeeping.

>Christianity has the same problems at times in some denominations.  Some denominations make drinking anything with alcohol a sin but the Bible does not make it a sin.  Some make dancing a sin, but again the Bible does not make it a sin.  The list goes on and on.<

I won't comment on this as it would no doubt get censored by the powers that be. But it is really your problem, not mine.

Irv

>>The Oral Torah neither contradicts nor does it mention something that doesn't exist in the Written Torah. Why? Because the Written Torah contains the instruction of not adding nor taking away anything from the Torah.<

Where is the requirement in the written Torah to wear a cap during worship or at any time for that matter?  Would I be allowed to enter your synagogue to worship if I did not wear one?<

That is in the Oral Torah in order to show respect and our devotion to Hashem. Not all Jews observe i this way as those of Sephardic descent only wear them when they are eating and praying.

As for you entering a synagogue, why would you want to? You don't belong there but if you showed up, you would not be thrown out unless you came to disrupt our services or hurt our people.

>> If anything the Oral Torah supplements the Written Torah by defining the intent of Hashem when his Torah says things about sanctifying the Sabbath or preserving it and keeping it Holy. These are things which you Xtians overlook and ignore.<

We do not overlook them or ignore them.  The only requirement is to remember the day and keep it holy.  There is no commandment to attend a religious service.  In fact I think they were required to stay in their house.  We can keep the Sabbath holy by remembering what God gave it to us  to remember.<

No. Hashem did not require that of you. It is no part of the 7 Noachite Laws which are the only things that relate to non-Jews. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

>The Sabbath was to remind us of who has sanctified us(Ex 31:13) and who freed us from our bondage(Deut 5:15).  It is a sign of one of God's covenant with His people.  We propane the Sabbath by not remembering those things and by continuing to work for what God has already done for us.<

The only thing Hashem did for you was to preserve your forebears who are the descedants of Noah as are we. But you were not slaves in Egypt and you did not suffer under Egyptian rule for 210 years. You also did not receive the Torah at Mount Sinai. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

>> And to make sure of that, He gave us the Torah in both a written and Oral form to make sure of it. So you took the Written the Torah but you could never got the Oral Torah since it was not committed to writing but only to the memories of the Sages to whom Hashem, through the mouth of Moses, gave it for safekeeping. <

That is a wonderful story but it can't be authenticated.<

So you believe. But tell you the truth, you can't prove a certain guy walked on water, healed the sick, came back from the dead or even existed.

>>I won't comment on this as it would no doubt get censored by the powers that be. But it is really your problem, not mine.<

It is not my problem.  If people want to obey the unwritten word, it is their problem. <

If you want to forbid us from doing it, then it is you who deserves to be punished, not us.

Irv

-Ivy

>>If Hashem had wanted a non-Jew to know it, he would have spelled iy out for you.  I ma therefore under no obligation to provide anything for you.<<

You said there is nothing in the oral Torah that is not  in the written Torah.  I pointed out one thing that is.  Do you not feel obligated to back up your statement?

>>So why do you need to pray in a Synagogue when you have so many places devoted devoted to your own religion? Or is it that you don't think we have any right to pray in our own places of worship?<<

Why are you avoiding the question?  The question was not about YOUR rights, it is about my rights in in your synagogue.  You certainly would be welcome to come into my church and worship if you wanted to.

>>Try it and find out.<<

Why do you keep avoiding my questions?

>>So why aren't you a Jew? Because Hashem didn't want you to be one and thus he didn't want you to do anything that a Jew does.<<

According tdo the NT I am a Jew. 

>>So you are saying that the Jews aren't Hashem's children and that we have no right to insist on being Jews?<<

I have not said or even suggested such a thing.

>>And you are sure of that? So Why did Abraham choose to be different?<<

Because God called him and he chose to follow God.  All of God's children do exactdly the same thing.  We are all different from the world.

>>It is my heritage and that makes it mine and it also lets me have a very different relationship with Hashem.<<

You DO NOT have a different relationship with God, that is not available to anyone who decides to make God, thier God.

>> Christians can't do that because they seem to need an intermediary.<<

Our intermediary is Jesus the Christ. 

>> I don't need one.<<

That depends on whose theology is right in this matter.

k - That's right but I KNOW God does not play favorites among His childlren.  Even good parents don't do that.<

It has nothing to do with playing favorites. <<

It certainly does.  God is not the Father of the Jews only.  He is the Father of all who follow Him.

>>It has everything to do with how you conduct yourselves towards others.<<

I agree.  You seem to have some of your comments deleted.  This is usually becaue they are insulting.  Is that how you conduct yourself towards others?

>> Crusades, Holy Inquisitions and Holocausts don't make Christians look any to good to anyone.<<

How did you determine they were Christians?

>>No. Forums are for discussions of lots of things, but when the messages and responses are aimed to try to turn somebody away from his or her religion, it is no longer a discussion. <<

Why should I try to turn anyone away from their beliefs?  I really don't have that ability.  You have read something into my comments that is not there.

If you don't care to discuss our differences that's fine with me.

k

>>If Hashem had wanted a non-Jew to know it, he would have spelled iy out for you.  I ma therefore under no obligation to provide anything for you.<

You said there is nothing in the oral Torah that is not  in the written Torah.  I pointed out one thing that is.  Do you not feel obligated to back up your statement?<

Since the Torah was not given to you, you don't need to know it, and therefore I have no obligation to teach it you for one thing. For a second, you have demonstrated that your inability to accept anything I tell you without making comments like this.

>>So why do you need to pray in a Synagogue when you have so many places devoted devoted to your own religion? Or is it that you don't think we have any right to pray in our own places of worship?<

Why are you avoiding the question?  The question was not about YOUR rights, it is about my rights in in your synagogue.  You certainly would be welcome to come into my church and worship if you wanted to.<

If you want to come to clean the floors and the bathrooms, fine. But demanding to pray there is unacceptable.

>>Try it and find out.<

Why do you keep avoiding my questions?<

No. Challenging you to put up or shut up.

>>So why aren't you a Jew? Because Hashem didn't want you to be one and thus he didn't want you to do anything that a Jew does.<

According tdo the NT I am a Jew. <

Your interpretation is poppycock and you know it. There is nothing Jewish about it either.

>>So you are saying that the Jews aren't Hashem's children and that we have no right to insist on being Jews?<

I have not said or even suggested such a thing.<

You most certainly have and on numerous occasions.

>>And you are sure of that? So Why did Abraham choose to be different?<

Because God called him and he chose to follow God.  All of God's children do exactdly the same thing.  We are all different from the world.<

I think you've got it backwards. Avram searched for Hashem and only when Hashem noticed it did He cal to him. Why else was Abraham told to "Go for yourself from your land, from your relatives and from your father's house"? Because Hashem understood that Avram wanted to be a different person and to become one he needed to leave what he was familiar with. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

>> Christians can't do that because they seem to need an intermediary.<

Our intermediary is Jesus the Christ. <

And that is you first mistake when it comes to having a Jewish relationship with Hashem. You don't have a Jewish relationship so what you've quoted from your so-called NT does not make you Jew nor will it ever.

>> I don't need one.<

That depends on whose theology is right in this matter.<

Stop playing word games, Kermit. You know darn well that your version of things is designed to convert Jews or XXXXXXXXXXXX.

>>That's right but I KNOW God does not play favorites among His childlren.  Even good parents don't do that.<

It has nothing to do with playing favorites. <

It certainly does.  God is not the Father of the Jews only.  He is the Father of all who follow Him.<

Hashem created everybody. That part is true but do you really worship Hashem or a dead Jew?

>> Is that how you conduct yourself towards others?<

When I am attacked I not only allowed to defend myself, but I am obligated to do it as well.

>> Crusades, Holy Inquisitions and Holocausts don't make Christians look any to good to anyone.<

How did you determine they were Christians?<

They called themselves Xtians and they were supported by the Pope. or wasn't he a Xtian either?

>>No. Forums are for discussions of lots of things, but when the messages and responses are aimed to try to turn somebody away from his or her religion, it is no longer a discussion. <

Why should I try to turn anyone away from their beliefs?  I really don't have that ability.  You have read something into my comments that is not there.<

I am gkad you fially realize that you don't have the ability to pursuade anyone to do what you want. But you never seem to give up trying.

>If you don't care to discuss our differences that's fine with me.<

What is there to discuss? obviously nothing.

Irv

{Edited by Staff for personal comments, spiritual judgment and accusations of genocide.}

Cassy >>>> Seems to me that keeping the head covered is a "how-to-show-respect" thing. <<<<

>>>> Interesting that it is for Jewish men and Roman Catholic women. <<<<

>>.  Seems to me that keeping the head covered is a "how-to-show-respect" thing.<<

It may be but there is no requirement in the written Torah that indicates it is.  Also, one can wear a cap and not respect God.

k

Cassy >>>> Seems to me that keeping the head covered is a "how-to-show-respect" thing. <<<<

>>>> Interesting that it is for Jewish men and Roman Catholic women. <<<<

Where do you get the idea that it is restricted to those two groups?

I don't. You said it, not me. Everyone knows that many or most Muslim countries women keep their heads covered, even when not in "church". Many say that is a sign of male domination.

In America and England, it used to be customary for a man to remove his hat, or at least tip it, as a sign of respect to a woman. I can remember those days.

But, as I said, in Judaism it is the men and formerly in RC it was the women who are supposed to keep their heads covered in services. Just demonstrates how social customs in various countries intertwine with religious ones, I suppose.

Cal, from West Michigan

All generalizations are false, including this one..