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NS 8 General
Skypilot Theme
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#1
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 9:57 AM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
All
[Msg # 3598.1 ]
Just tried to setup NS8 like 7.2 with the trobber on the right, but with the
latest Skypilot theme
(13Nov05) the throbber doesn't throb at all - it just stays b&w. If you hover over you get the full colour, wind in you hair effect.
Also if I reboot NS8 after adding the throbber to the toolbar, NS8 then doesn't start properly - No Home Pages load and if I customise and remove the throbber, everything is then unavailable, even the main menu won't work..
If I use winscape the throbber appears and NS8 works fine, it's just the throbber sticks and judders a lot, it isn't the smooth animation of 7.2
Is this my setup/config or am I missing something....?
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#2
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 10:53 AM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.2
3598.1
]
NS8 actually allows a theme to have the traditional throbber or to replace it with the one on the upper-left of the title bar. In the case of Sky Pilot Classic, I chose to implement both. Unfortunately, in doing so, there seems to be a problem with it. While I can't reproduce your problem(s), I have noticed that if I put it on the navbar and then exit and restart the browser, the throbber returns to the Customize palette, i.e., it won't stick between restarts.
As near as I can tell, this is a NS8 limitation. I recall sending in a report about this a long time ago but I'm not sure whether I filed it as a bug or an enhancement request?
As such, it's probably best not to use the traditional throbber in the Customize palette. I may even remove it in the future. Again, the throbber on the title bar should work.
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#3
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 11:53 AM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.3
3598.2
]
> Again, the throbber on the title bar should work.
It does, its just with Skypilot the title bar throbber size is so small you really can't appreciate the animation.
>
While I can't reproduce your problem(s)
On further inspection it seems that NS8 just runs the toolbar throbber animation really slowly and skips frames, so its very jerky.....
....If I find a slow loading page the Skypilot throbber (large) is animated, but NS8 only plays 1 or 2 frames a second and not sequential frames either. You only get the smooth animation on mouse over.
Unfortunately on restart NS8 fails to start fully. It gets stuck before the home page(s) are loaded, it even leaves the software update icon in the status bar for example. I've never seen that one displayed before with NS8.... (Red U for Skypilot)
Note: I get the same 'stuck on load' behaviour if I add the throbber with Winscape and then choose Fusion or A.Alloy.
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#4
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 12:23 PM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.4
3598.3
]
>
If I find a slow loading page the Skypilot throbber (large) is animated, but NS8 only plays 1 or 2 frames a second and not sequential frames either. You only get the smooth animation on mouse over.
A theme doesn't have any control over the page loading animation, that's completely a browser function. The page loading animation is nothing more than an animated gif image.
>
it even leaves the software update icon in the status bar for example. I've never seen that one displayed before with NS8.... (Red U for Skypilot)
Interesting. This icon is actually part of Firefox and is supposed to be displayed when either there is an update for the browser or an extension, as indicated on their respective servers. I'm not sure why it is being display in this case?
>
Note: I get the same 'stuck on load' behaviour if I add the throbber with Winscape and then choose Fusion or A.Alloy.
Odd, unfortunately, I'm unable to reproduce this problem.
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#5
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 12:54 PM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.5
3598.4
]
>
Odd, unfortunately, I'm unable to reproduce this problem.
It would seem the problem occurs if you place the throbber in a User Created toolbar. in my reports so far I've place the throbber in a User Created toolbar. If I stuff it into the System provided Navigation Toolbar it works as you describe, i.e. it is removed on reboot. I'm guessing you've being d&d it into a system one....?
>
(re software update icon) I'm not sure why it is being display in this case?
Maybe when it's in a user toolbar, it hangs on restart when trying to remove it, hence leaving the software update icon on screen.
PS. I got the software update popup when I clicked on the Red U - so it was functional.......
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#6
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 1:01 PM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.6
3598.5
]
ah-ha! Yes, I was able to recreate the problem when putting it on the user created toolbar. I don't have an answer as to why that is, though.
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#7
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 1:05 PM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
All
[Msg # 3598.7
3598.5
]
Just tried things in Winscape and the throbber works fine in both System and User Created toolbars and remains across restarts.....
.....but change to Skypilot with the throbber in a User Created Toolbar and I get the hang on loading with the Red U on screen. Then change back to Winscape and NS8 loads fine.
PS. After a reboot the throbber animation is working better - it just seems more stilted than I remember with NS 7.
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#8
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 1:20 PM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.8
3598.7
]
My guess is that NS8 gets confused when two throbbers are present. In order to get it to work like WinScape I would need to disable the use of the title bar, including the ability to toggle the menu items to it. I find this feature much more useful than the ability to have the older larger throbber.
I could, of course, make the title bar throbber the big one but then that wastes vertical/horizontal space.
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#9
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 2:20 PM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.9
3598.8
]
>
I find this feature much more useful than the ability to have the older larger throbber.
Agreed.
>
I could, of course, make the title bar throbber the big one but then that wastes vertical/horizontal space.
But isn't this the same as the Big N throbber used in AAlloy and others...? I agree it wastes a bit of space, but fwiw i'd vote for it.
Anyway, I guess we both agree that having the throbber in the customise toolbar is nearing end of life.
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#10
of 88
Posted
11/14/05 4:06 PM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.10
3598.9
]
>
But isn't this the same as the Big N throbber used in AAlloy and others...? I agree it wastes a bit of space, but fwiw i'd vote for it.
Yes, exactly. The problem is that with it being a square throbber, it really looks out of place; whereas, the round AA throbeer doesn't. I could encase the Sky Pilot gif in a round frame, as I experimented with early on, but the sections that were lost made it less interesting, imo.
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#11
of 88
Posted
11/15/05 4:16 AM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.11
3598.10
]
>
I could encase the Sky Pilot gif in a round frame
Rather than a circle how about a shield shaped pilots badge....?. You could then smooth out the bottom curve to fit in a good amount of the details on the shirt/scarf etc....
...Or something else appropriate between a square and a circle that would fit with the theme but still allow sufficient animation.
> ....
but the sections that were lost made it less interesting, imo.
But if only the small taskbar throbber is provided, then surely even more will be lost.........?.
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#12
of 88
Posted
11/15/05 9:58 AM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.12
3598.11
]
>
...Or something else appropriate between a square and a circle that would fit with the theme but still allow sufficient animation.
The bigger problem is that the throbber collides with the navbar's grey frame and doesn't integrate well
.>
But if only the small taskbar throbber is provided, then surely even more will be lost.........?.
But something more important is gained, the ability to toggle the menu items to the title bar; thus, gaining mot vertical space for content. I'm afraid the only hope is for the NS8 folks to allow the throbber to be placed either on the titlebar or on a toolbar AND to allow the menu toggle in either instance.
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#13
of 88
Posted
11/16/05 5:55 AM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.13
3598.12
]
>
The bigger problem is that the throbber collides with the navbar's grey frame and doesn't integrate well
I hadn't twigged this until now, but your right, it would end up a touch ugly if the throbber spilt over from the titlebar into the nav bar. I guess you need a single toolbar/titlebar background like AA for this to work.
>
But something more important is gained, the ability to toggle the menu items to the title bar;
Fine, the menu items in the toolbar has become too invaluable to lose, I wasn't too keen on it at first, but now I can't use a Theme without it.
>
I'm afraid the only hope is for the NS8 folks to allow the throbber to be placed either on the titlebar or on a toolbar AND to allow the menu toggle in either instance.
.....I think there are probably a few higher priority items for dev effort at the moment....
Anyway thanks for explaining why the big Throbber won't work and ensuring we followed the reasoning.
fwiw I'd suggest removing the throbber from customise until the bugs that cause it to be removed on restart if placed in a system toolbar, or causes NS8 to hang on if it's placed in a user toolbar.
Finally, while the latest build (15Nov) fixes the location text position in customise, you seem to have missed the actual location icon out of the build, it was in the last one (13th)
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#14
of 88
Posted
11/16/05 10:04 AM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.14
3598.13
]
>
Finally, while the latest build (15Nov) fixes the location text position in customise, you seem to have missed the actual location icon out of the build, it was in the last one (13th)
Mine looks like the attached, is it different than yours?
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SPCLocation.gif
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#15
of 88
Posted
11/16/05 11:09 AM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.15
3598.14
]
Nope, I'm without the icon, Win98 and Win2000, all is fine with A.Alloy 15Nov release.
Pics of 15 & 13 Nov for comparison. Theme Manager inc, I deleted SKypilot, trashed the extensions folder and reinstalled the 15th so It should be the right one.
Attachments
Name:
Toolbar_SkyP_URL_Icon_Missing_15Nov.jpg
Size:
74 K
Name:
Toolbar_SkyP_URL_Icon_Text_Overlaid_13Nov.jpg
Size:
74 K
Name:
Theme_Mgr_15Nov.jpg
Size:
89 K
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#16
of 88
Posted
11/16/05 1:14 PM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.16
3598.15
]
>
Nope, I'm without the icon, Win98 and Win2000, all is fine with A.Alloy 15Nov release.
Hmm, attached is a screen grap of the Customize palette using Win98SE (which is where I am now responding.)
Try deleting the XUL.mfl file your profile folder and restarting the browser. This is the browser's chrome cache file and will be recreated automatically on restart.
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Name:
SPCWin98SELocation.png
Size:
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#17
of 88
Posted
11/17/05 6:54 AM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.17
3598.16
]
Tried deleting XUl.mfl, same result. I've also tried a new clean profile, with only Skypilot installed - same result. Not sure what to try next...?
The browser.css in the 15Nov .jar I'm using is 109,057 bytes and dated 15Nov at 18:21
A couple more comments from using SkyP:-
The Bookmark, History, Download and print icons don't seem to have a Large Version, When you select Large Icon mode for aToolbar you seem to get the small one, just spaced out further.
In a User Created Toolbar, none of the icons display their large versions when you select Large Icon mode. Again you seem to get the small icons spaced out further.
If you choose Icons & Text, either Large or Small, for a User Created Toolbar, the text is displayed across the middle of the icon, rather than underneath as with the systems toolbars.
Again, these results are common across Win2000 and Win98SE.
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#18
of 88
Posted
11/17/05 10:56 AM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.18
3598.17
]
>
The browser.css in the 15Nov .jar I'm using is 109,057 bytes and dated 15Nov at 18:21
Yep, that's the one. Dunno why it's not displaying on you system?
>
The Bookmark, History, Download and print icons don't seem to have a Large Version, When you select Large Icon mode for aToolbar you seem to get the small one, just spaced out further.
The Print icon is keeping with the original design intent (the theme always had the small Print icon even when only one size icons were available.) The other three were designed when they all invoked different views of the sidebar (Download Manager was originally designed for the sidebar in Firefox.) Anyway, I didn't like the way the large versions looked so I kept them small. I may redesign them sometime in the future but, to be honest, since I never use them I suspect it won't likely happen (
out of sight, out of mind..
.)
>
In a User Created Toolbar, none of the icons display their large versions when you select Large Icon mode. Again you seem to get the small icons spaced out further.
By design. The theme design took many extra steps to get it to work that way. I wanted all user-created toolbars to remain small to conserve vertical space for content.
>
If you choose Icons & Text, either Large or Small, for a User Created Toolbar, the text is displayed across the middle of the icon, rather than underneath as with the systems toolbars.
By design, see above. leaving the text underneath would have enlarged the toolbar.
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#19
of 88
Posted
11/17/05 4:59 PM
From
macallan1824
Posts
1521
Last
6/22/08
To
Sailfish
[Msg # 3598.19
3598.18
]
> Dunno why it's not displaying on you system?
Think I've figured it out. Below are the two relavent lines from browser.css that deal with the URL widget icon.
The top one is from the 13Nov Ver, which had the icon, but the text overlaid, the bottom one is from the 15Nov Ver where no icon is displayed
list-style-image: url("chrome://browser/skin/
l
ocation.png");
list-style-image: url("chrome://browser/skin/
L
ocation.png");
The only difference is with the capitalisation of the icon filename. If I change the 15th ver to a lowercase l all finally works fine (see pic).
As the icon is named location.png, I assume this stuff is case sensitive on windows.....?
> By design. The theme design took many extra steps to get it to work that way. I wanted all user-created toolbars to remain small to conserve vertical space for content.
> By design, see above. leaving the text underneath would have enlarged the toolbar.
I thought the aim was to provide choice to the users and then let us decide the best trade off between screen space and legibility given our situation re screen size/age/eye-sight etc.......hey ho........
......Anyway I'm probably back to AA after this testing.
PS. If you d&d the throbber onto a Multibar, NS8 hangs on restart similiar to a user toolbar
Attachments
Name:
Toolbar_URL_OK_with_location.png.jpg
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#20
of 88
Posted
11/17/05 5:31 PM
From
Sailfish
Posts
1554
Last
7/30/07
To
macallan1824
[Msg # 3598.20
3598.19
]
>
As the icon is named location.png, I assume this stuff is case sensitive on windows.....?
Actually, it's been my experience that Windows has been case-insensitive, at least with Win98. Hmm, there may be a system setting that affects this which could be why I hadn't seen it on my system? Anyway, I've changed it and it will be incorporated in the next revision.
>
I thought the aim was to provide choice to the users and then let us decide the best trade off between screen space and legibility given our situation re screen size/age/eye-sight etc.......hey ho........
This "small toolbar" implementation was implemented on the Firefox
Sky Pilot Classic
theme where one doesn't have a choice of selecting distinct toolbar large/small icon options and then it was ported to NS8, which does. If Firefox had provided it initially then I would not have gone to the very extra effort to force the toolbars small (as an aside, the Firefox T
oy Factory
theme is the same way.) I may remove that styling for NS8 in the future if enough people request it?
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