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7) Women's Circle

For Maria

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#1 of 65

     Posted 4/22/06 10:10 AM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  All      [Msg # 66068.1 ]    

For what is it to die, but to stand in the sun and melt into the wind?    Kahlil Gibran

I have been trying to find words to write about Maria, and I just can't seem to grasp them. Everytime I try, my throat feels like it's closing and I begin crying.

I will miss you so much, my dear friend. I know you are with me because I can feel you trying to comfort me.

May your spirit soar like an eagle through the sky and run like the silver wolf through the woods. May your family and friends always be blessed with the memory of your love and compassion.

I am honored and blessed to have been your friend.

Tink

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#2 of 65

     Posted 4/22/06 6:44 PM   
Greensleeves
 
From  Greensleeves  Posts 3429  Last Jul-7
To  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle      [Msg # 66068.2 Message 66068.2 replying to 66068.1 66068.1 ]    

It was such a shock, wasn't it {{{{hugs}}}}

I had Maria described to me.  WO described her to me yesterday morning.  She said, she had the most beautiful eyes (unusual eyes) and I suddenly thought, I wonder what sort of music she liked.  Did we (you) ever get around to finding out?

Never have I known anyone get round to so many threads in the forums.  I always seem to be trying to catch up and when there wasn't a thread on any particular day, I would wonder where she was and if all was well.  I've been in the forums for years, yet I have never known anyone who had so many different and interesting things to talk about.

When you were moving house and then in Florida, (I am on line nearly all day, most days (usually working)) and Maria would email me and we would be emailing backwards and forwards.  Her emails were always full of beautiful pictures, goodness knows where she found them and then I found myself looking for pictures to send back. <g>. 

She would say, I will be so pleased when Tink comes back again.  Like DenE said, she loved you a lot Tink and yes, she's around you and she always will be somewhere in your life.  I somehow feel she will be around in all our lives.  I will never forget her.

To me, it seemed that Maria just loved people - some were extra special - but it seems to me she knew the true meaning of love - What a gift.  What a gift Marie was to us all.

Hugs and Love

~Greensleeves

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#3 of 65

     Posted 4/22/06 9:55 PM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  Greensleeves      [Msg # 66068.3 Message 66068.3 replying to 66068.2 66068.2 ]    

<<She said, she had the most beautiful eyes (unusual eyes)>>

<S> Yes she did. I have a recent phot that I will send to you. I'd post it here.....but she would surely pitch a fit and I am not ready to handle the wrath of The Silver Wolf.

<< I wonder what sort of music she liked.  Did we (you) ever get around to finding out?>>

She loved all kinds of music. When we went to dinner several months ago (me, Teg, Silver) a band was playing and I could see she was dying to get up and dance. Her back had been bothering her and I was so worried that if we started dancing, she'd go crazy and throw her back out and then Teg and I would be trying to get her and the two kids home! We finally got up and I warned her to BEHAVE herself. <lol> Her son Michael is a wonderful muscian.

<<I have never known anyone who had so many different and interesting things to talk about.>>

She was like a sponge. If there was something she didn't know about, you can bet she was going to read up on it and find out. So many times she started a conversation with, "I was just reading about....."

<<Her emails were always full of beautiful pictures>>

<lol> OMG! After she found out I knew how to reduce the size of photos so that they could be used as forum icon, she went on a KICK for weeks where she was sending me dozens and dozens of photos! I am NOT exaggerating......maybe 5-6 a day! <rofl> I said Maria.....for crying out loud.....you're driving me NUTS with the photos!

<<I will be so pleased when Tink comes back again. >>

I wish we lived closer so that we could have spent more time together. She was so looking forward to me bringing her here. In December, she wanted so badly to drive to see Queenie & Tegan and I just couldn't do it. <sigh>

<<she's around you and she always will be somewhere in your life.>>

I keep seeing flashes of her in my mind. When I was writing that stuff about her and those darn photos.....she was laughing so hard. We used to laugh so hard on the phone that my sides hurt. I remember when I was having trouble with my gallbladder and she called to LECTURE me, she started telling me a story about a friend and she made me laugh so hard that I was doubled over.

<<it seemed that Maria just loved people >>

When Teg and I were visiting, some people came by her house on horseback. Silver flew out to the street to say hello.....she was hugging and petting the horses and talked with the people (who she'd never met) for a good 30 minutes. I remember because I had to leave and they were blocking my car in!

She was most definitely a precious gift and that woman LIVED her life.

Thank you Greensleeves. <w>

Tink
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#4 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 12:00 AM   
earthsea
 
From  earthsea  Posts 864  Last 5/22/06
To  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle      [Msg # 66068.4 Message 66068.4 replying to 66068.3 66068.3 ]    
Thank you Tink for sharing these memories.  They made me laugh and sigh - and wish that I could have had them too.  I do remember Tegan telling me just how cool Maria's eyes were, and I was just so curious to know what the "most beautiful unusual eyes" looked like.  I was excited about the possibility of maybe meeting both you and Maria with Tegan once I was back in NYC. Sigh... I guess it's not too late to get to know Maria, if only from everyone's stories :)
.^.earthsea~~
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#5 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 5:42 AM   
Greensleeves
 
From  Greensleeves  Posts 3429  Last Jul-7
To  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle      [Msg # 66068.5 Message 66068.5 replying to 66068.3 66068.3 ]    

It's strange, I (as you know) have never met Maria, but after I heard about her not waking up that morning, I know I have written about it somewhere else, I thought "Kitchen Witch", because I had to put the candle in the kitchen and I swear I heard her laugh.  I was feeling really cut up about the news.  I mean to say I could hardly see the candle, yet believing I heard her laugh, I smiled.

You told me, something she said, always sounded like music.  To me the laughter and the music go together, she must have had very high vibrations........so very sensitive.

~Greensleeves

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#6 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 5:44 AM   
Greensleeves
 
From  Greensleeves  Posts 3429  Last Jul-7
To  earthsea      [Msg # 66068.6 Message 66068.6 replying to 66068.4 66068.4 ]    

 <I guess it's not too late to get to know Maria, if only from everyone's stories :)>

You and me both, Earthsea : )

~Greensleeves

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#7 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 8:34 AM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  Greensleeves      [Msg # 66068.7 Message 66068.7 replying to 66068.5 66068.5 ]    

I have the copy of the email Maria sent me on 4/9 sitting here at my desk. I read it again this morning. I am so angry at the medical personnel that treated (or I should say MIStreated) her. I'm trying very hard to stay focused on the beautiful memories of Silver Wolf and not allow that anger to take over.

I'm not a physician, but I read this letter and I can't help but wonder.....WHAT were they thinking?

Tink
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#8 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 12:12 PM   
Greensleeves
 
From  Greensleeves  Posts 3429  Last Jul-7
To  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle      [Msg # 66068.8 Message 66068.8 replying to 66068.7 66068.7 ]    

<.....WHAT were they thinking?>

Goodness knows, Tink.   

By the way, do you have any idea as to Maria's favourite colour.  Is it red?  I am going to tie some ribbons, for Maria, on a lovely tree in the garden on Thursday.

Every time I read the Private Message she sent me, the night before she died, makes me want to cry.  I think that came from the child (that lovely kind of innocence) within her and there did always seem to be a certain innocence about her, didn't there.  Or that is how she came over to me, without having met her.  Anyway, a pink ribbon for the child within her and white for peace.

~Greensleeves

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#9 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 1:47 PM   
Starmist
 
From  Starmist  Posts 2664  Last Nov-18
To  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle      [Msg # 66068.9 Message 66068.9 replying to 66068.7 66068.7 ]    
>>I'm not a physician, but I read this letter and I can't help but wonder.....WHAT were they thinking?<<

She was a patient, not a person.  They did what they usually do, scheduled a patient and paid no attention to the person begging for help.  Excuse me but I am far to upset to be at all charitable - they murdered her, that's what they did.

Hugs, Freda
Joyfully Subversive
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#10 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 2:12 PM   
Tegan
 
From  Tegan  Posts 2116  Last Nov-21
To  Starmist      [Msg # 66068.10 Message 66068.10 replying to 66068.9 66068.9 ]    
(((((((((((Freda))))))))))))

I echo you're sentiment.  I have been so ANGRY over the last few days!!!!!!!!!!  When  Queenie called me with the news, all I could get out was No, No, No.  And what I meant about that was "no, the doctor did not let it come to this!"  This doctor, in my opinion, failed Wolfie!  And although I usually do not wish harm on anyone for any reason, this time I do hope that this doctor feels just a small bit of the pain we are feeling.
Tegan

"Courage is faith in action, and the reward for courage is wisdom"

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#11 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 3:19 PM   
Starmist
 
From  Starmist  Posts 2664  Last Nov-18
To  Tegan      [Msg # 66068.11 Message 66068.11 replying to 66068.10 66068.10 ]    
((((((((((Tegan))))))))))

I agree.

Hugs, Freda
Joyfully Subversive
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#12 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 5:18 PM   
Myreddin
 
From  Myreddin  Posts 179  Last 5/20/06
To  Tegan      [Msg # 66068.12 Message 66068.12 replying to 66068.10 66068.10 ]    
Tegan,

I know you are angry and upset but I would like to interject some facts about the medical profession.

For every 3 - 5 symptoms a patient describes to a doctor, there can be over 3,000 conditions that fit those symptoms.
Of those said 3000 conditions, a doctor has to use the process of elimination, keeping in mind the patient's medical history as well as family medical history, to narrow the field down as much as possible. The doctor then starts with what they think is the most likely course of action to take at the top of that list and proceeds from there. If that doesn't work, they move onto the next and so on.

There are many people who die of conditions that weren't picked up on conventional tests simply because it wasn't present and conditions that appear rapidly (within days or hours), and even medical conditions that are new and came out of nowhere! The patient also needs to be informed enough to question the doctor about their treatment and do research on their own. Not knowing what her medical condition actually was, I am not saying that Silver (or her doctor for that matter) did not do everything they knew (or had the knowledge to do) at the time. Medicine is not a perfect science and doctors aren't perfect either.

I know simply because I have an undiagnosed condition and I will have to be seen in the coming weeks by a neurologist, internist, pathologist and other "ists" and "ologists" that I have never heard of before. I have already been poked, prodded, scanned, x-rayed and had more blood taken from me that I feel like I am a live donor to Dracula! Yes, I am frustrated, but undeterred.

I certainly agree that there are doctors out there practicing in an unethical and harmful manner, which leads one to wonder how in the world they ever made it through medical school, much less get their medical license! If Silver's doctor is one of these, well, the "truth will come out" as the saying goes and he will be held responsible for his action, or inaction as the case may be.

I know that is little consolation to you as the pain of such a loss can be overwhelming. But I would like to assure you that Silver is fine now as she is with the God/dess in the Summerlands. "No sorrow...remember the good times...don't be angry...peace"





Blessed Be!

Myreddin

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#13 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 8:57 PM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  Greensleeves      [Msg # 66068.13 Message 66068.13 replying to 66068.8 66068.8 ]    

<<and there did always seem to be a certain innocence about her, didn't there.>>

I know exactly what you are speaking about, and yes, I saw that side of her on a few occasions. She cared very much about the feelings of others and it bothered her tremendously to think that she may have hurt someone's feelings or caused them discomfort.

I'm not sure what Maria's favorite color was, but I *see* orange when I think of her. Maybe it's posted in the thread that Lynne started about colors?

Tink
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#14 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 9:02 PM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  Starmist      [Msg # 66068.14 Message 66068.14 replying to 66068.9 66068.9 ]    
I know it's difficult Freda and I understand your anger and frustration....believe me I do. I keep thinking what if an angioplast would have saved her life? Maybe it was far more serious.....maybe she would have needed by-pass surgery. We don't know. I DO know that people don't DIE from an acid reflux attack.Tink
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#15 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 9:24 PM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  Myreddin      [Msg # 66068.15 Message 66068.15 replying to 66068.12 66068.12 ]    

With all due respect Myreddin, Silver had specific symptoms for months and saw her physician on several occasions. Each time she was told she had acid reflux.

My husband is a family physician. Maria wrote me an email the second week of April describing her symptoms during and after a recent attack. I printed it out and handed it to Steve. It took him less than thirty seconds to reply, I think it's her heart.....not her stomach. He told me the tests that *needed* to be done to rule out a serious heart issue. (The stomach tests were secondary)

Maria could not afford to schedule these expensive tests as an outpatient. Steve told her that as soon as she felt an attack to call 911 and get admitted through the emergency room so that medicare would cover the tests needed. So she had to wait until she had yet ANOTHER attack. BUT the paramedics told her that her vitals were "normal" and there was no need for her to be admitted. They suggested that she may have a bad gallbladder. It is NOT a paramedics place to diagnose anyone.

So Maria never got to the hospital. She called her doctor in the morning and the doctor once again told her she had acid reflux and told her to double the dose of her stomach medicine.

And here we are.....planning her memorial service.

My husband's exact words......"This is a disgrace and a tragedy."

And like you.....I DO believe that Silver's spirit is free and at peace. But I believe that all of us have the right to be angry at how she reached that place. My spiritual side knows that life is temporary and the soul lives forever. I know she is with me and I know that I will be with her again at some point in time. But my human side is angry. I'm tired of hearing about people in this country...."The GREATEST nation on the planet" <what a JOKE>.......that don't get the medical treatment and medications they need. You can best believe that if King George Almighty had chest pain in the morning, he'd be whisked off to the finest medical institution in DC and within an hour he'd have all the tests he needed and all the necessary treatments scheduled.

This isn't meant to be blasted at you and I hope you don't take it that way. I'm furious with the system and the mounds of red tape.

Tink
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#16 of 65

     Posted 4/23/06 11:47 PM   
Myreddin
 
From  Myreddin  Posts 179  Last 5/20/06
To  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle      [Msg # 66068.16 Message 66068.16 replying to 66068.15 66068.15 ]    
First of all, thank you for filling me in on the specifics.

Secondly, you are right about the red tape (and yes, it is a joke). Your husband's words are direct and to the point.

Third, I don't believe I said that you didn't have the right to be angry nor was it implied. I am sorry if you and others got that impression. I was merely pointing out that symptoms can have many different causes and that medicine as well as doctors weren't perfect. I guess in hindsight I should have asked for details first. For that, I am truly sorry.

"King George Almighty" - Ohhh I won't even go there. That "man"....well suffice to say, there aren't enough curse words for me to describe him.

Lastly, no, I don't take offense. You were letting me know what the facts were and I appreciate that.

For you and others, "mea culpa"

I'm definitely not perfect either.

Blessed Be!

Myreddin

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#17 of 65

     Posted 4/24/06 5:52 AM   
starfire
 
From  starfire  Posts 81  Last 8/23/06
To  All      [Msg # 66068.17 Message 66068.17 replying to 66068.1 66068.1 ]    
I don't know what to write. I only knew her for a short time. She seemed like a sweet person with a kind heart. I wish I had the change to get to know her better. May the wind wisaper her name and the sun shine always bright in memery of her. hugsBless it be Merry meet Starfire
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#18 of 65

     Posted 4/24/06 8:04 AM   
Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle
 
From  Tinkerbear/SL:Women's Circle  Posts 3897  Last 2/3/09
To  Myreddin      [Msg # 66068.18 Message 66068.18 replying to 66068.16 66068.16 ]    

<<Third, I don't believe I said that you didn't have the right to be angry nor was it implied. I am sorry if you and others got that impression.>>

No.....I didn't. And I have been telling myself what you wrote in that message. That I have to remember that Maria is now embraced with the love of God/Goddess.....especially Goddess who she honored and respected to her core.

Tink
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#19 of 65

     Posted 4/24/06 9:43 AM   
Tegan
 
From  Tegan  Posts 2116  Last Nov-21
To  Myreddin      [Msg # 66068.19 Message 66068.19 replying to 66068.12 66068.12 ]    
Hi Myreddin, forgive me for taking some time to answer you.  The wounds are just so fresh, and I am just so angry.  Not at you though :).  The points you made were valid.  Unfortunately, I have experienced my share of the loss of loved ones from all sources but this is the first time I actually blame the system.  I'm glad Tink filled you in on the details. <g>.  You see, this is not the first time this doctor screwed up with a diagnosis.  I think my anger stems from the fact that the doctor could not see what so many of us "laymen" could.  It breaks my heart because I felt that this doctor (who happens to be a woman) ignored the fact that heart disease is the leading killer of women in this country, largely in part because the symptoms present so differently than in men.  As a matter of fact, indigestion or acid reflux is often the diagnosis.  I am having a very hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that this was destined to happen this way, and thats a very new sensation for me which is just making it harder.

I completely agree with you that Wolfie is with her beloved Goddess!  It is the solace that is helping me keep it together (somewhat) <s>.  I also believe, that because she went in her sleep means that the Goddess saw to it that Wolfie did not have to suffer with her last breathe.  A few weeks ago, Wolfie made the comment that we shouldn't worry about losing her because she would haunt us all.  I can't wait!  LOL!  The love this woman had for everyone was so intense and complete, in true Wiccan fashion, that I am confident that as soon as her soul is settled, she will be back.  That thought brings a smile to my face.
Tegan

"Courage is faith in action, and the reward for courage is wisdom"

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#20 of 65

     Posted 4/24/06 11:02 AM   
earthsea
 
From  earthsea  Posts 864  Last 5/22/06
To  Myreddin      [Msg # 66068.20 Message 66068.20 replying to 66068.12 66068.12 ]    
Hi Myreddin,

Tegan and Tink are right to be angry... Maria's so-called doctor was more concerned about avoiding expensive tests than Maria's health! :(((((((((((( I greatly resent that such doctors exist... Some in the profession have forgotten to listen to their patients - the doctors aren't the ones experiencing the symptoms!

Maria's death could have been prevented if diagnosed properly - but time and time again she was turned away.  I would even say that Maria probably did not call her doctor or the ambulance when she once again felt sick the morning of her passing; she just thought they wouldn't listen to her!

Part of me wants to say "sue that awful doctor" - because she needs to know that she can't treat her patients that way.  Sigh, maybe someone needs to go to her and say, "You let our loved one die because you didn't listen. Please listen the next time."

Glad you're still here with us Myreddin and sharing your thoughts and opinions! Hugs,
.^.earthsea~~
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7) Women's Circle

For Maria

  
 
     

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