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The Tower

Should interpreters be provided for a...

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John Barreiro [Wizop]
by :   John Barreiro [Wizop]
4/1/08

votes :   4
Latest :   4/3/08
The poll has closed
Should interpreters be provided for all LEPs at all times?
Yes, it is a right.
   
2 votes (50%)
Only under certain conditions
   
1 vote (25%)
Just for legal affairs
   
1 vote (25%)
Depends on who's paying
   
0 votes (0%)
Only if they ask
   
0 votes (0%)
Let a family member interpret
   
0 votes (0%)
No, let them learn English!
   
0 votes (0%)

#2 of 17

     Posted 4/1/08 9:32 PM   
4merCL
 
From  4merCL  Posts 338  Last Oct-27
To  John Barreiro [Wizop]      [Msg # 2723.2 Message 2723.2 replying to 2723.1 2723.1 ]    

>> Should interpreters be provided for all LEPs at all times?  <<

LEPs?  I don't think you are referring to persons with Hanson's Disease, aka LEProsy.

Best regards,  4merCL

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#3 of 17

     Posted 4/1/08 9:35 PM   
John Barreiro [Wizop]
 
From  John Barreiro [Wizop]  Posts 973  Last Jul-8
To  4merCL      [Msg # 2723.3 Message 2723.3 replying to 2723.2 2723.2 ]    
LEP = Limited English Proficiency.


Nemo me impune lacessit


Edited 4/1/08   by  John Barreiro [Wizop]
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#4 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 2:53 AM   
Bev L [France]
 
From  Bev L [France]  Posts 125  Last Oct-28
To  John Barreiro [Wizop]      [Msg # 2723.4 Message 2723.4 replying to 2723.1 2723.1 ]    
How about "none of the above - let's try a different approach"? <g>

Obviously, LEP's (or foreigners in general) can't expect to be provided with an interpreter all the time. But certainly within the justice system, there ought to be provision for at least a couple of alternative languages. Spanish and French are widely spoken around the world, especially in developing countries that are the origin for a vast majority of immigrants to the US (and elsewhere).

Then, there are local considerations. Portuguese seems to be prevalent in parts of New England, for example, or German or Swedish in the northern Great Plains. Mandarin, Cantonese or Japanese on the West Coast.

It makes sense to offer "a few" alternative languages in language-critical situations such as legal proceedings and (where possible) critical health care decisions. Outside the languages offered, the person has to fall back on friends and family.

It is ridiculous to expect the courts to provide translation in obscure regional languages, just as it is ridiculous for arriving immigrants not to realize that English is the predominant language of the US and the one they will have to deal with if they want to realize their dreams. However, given the nature of the US justice system, it seems only reasonable to make some accomodation to those who have not yet mastered the English language.

What seems to be the problem here is the "all or nothing" approach in the US. Either we guarantee everyone access to their chosen language or we offer them nothing at all. How about a choice of available languages in a good-faith effort to keep communication open?
Cheers,
Bev
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#5 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 8:28 AM   
4merCL
 
From  4merCL  Posts 338  Last Oct-27
To  Bev L [France]      [Msg # 2723.5 Message 2723.5 replying to 2723.4 2723.4 ]    

>>  What seems to be the problem here is the "all or nothing" approach in the US. Either we guarantee everyone access to their chosen language or we offer them nothing at all. How about a choice of available languages in a good-faith effort to keep communication open?  <<

The problem with your proposal, Bev, is that it is too common-sensical and does not  provide an easy  launch pad for politicians (or special interest advocates) to demagogue.

Best regards,  4merCL

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#6 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 12:40 PM   
John Barreiro [Wizop]
 
From  John Barreiro [Wizop]  Posts 973  Last Jul-8
To  Bev L [France]      [Msg # 2723.6 Message 2723.6 replying to 2723.4 2723.4 ]    

>>It is ridiculous to expect the courts to provide translation in obscure regional languages, just as it is ridiculous for arriving immigrants not to realize that English is the predominant language of the US and the one they will have to deal with if they want to realize their dreams.<<

The rub is that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 states requires the use of interpreters in the US, it is a right protected by law. Originally it was meant only to cover criminal matters but over the years different Courts have established that all procedures that involve a person with less than full command of the English language be provide with a competent interpreter, regardless of the obscuricity [is that a word??] of the language or dialect.

I wholly agree with you; If a person wants to emigrate to another country they should prepare themselves.


Nemo me impune lacessit

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#7 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 4:27 PM   
Bev L [France]
 
From  Bev L [France]  Posts 125  Last Oct-28
To  John Barreiro [Wizop]      [Msg # 2723.7 Message 2723.7 replying to 2723.6 2723.6 ]    
>>I wholly agree with you; If a person wants to emigrate to another country they should prepare themselves.

Yes, but - I feel quite strongly that a decent and caring government will make some efforts to accomodate those who haven't yet mastered the local language. Remember, I'm the foreigner over here in France. I can't tell you how many people here have assured me that I'll "never be REALLY French" despite all the cr@p I put up with to get legal and to take nationality - and my ancestors hail from the Hexagon.

It's really nice that the US offers tax information in Spanish. And voting information in Chinese and Urdu and who knows what other languages.
Cheers,
Bev


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#8 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 4:44 PM   
DickWeltz (NYC)
 
From  DickWeltz (NYC)  Posts 191  Last Oct-28
To  Bev L [France]      [Msg # 2723.8 Message 2723.8 replying to 2723.7 2723.7 ]    

It's really nice that the US offers tax information in Spanish. And voting information in Chinese and Urdu and who knows what other languages.

Every time I receive multilingual voting information in foreign languages, I see red, especially as the translations and printing are at my expense. You aren't supposed to be allowed naturalization unless you have English proficiency, and you aren't allowed to vote if you're not a citizen.

If I emigrated to Germany or France, I certainly wouldn't expect them to allow me to become a citizen and vote if I hadn't learned their language.

This is not Canada or Switzerland. We are an English-speaking country. Private linguistic courtesies are fine, as are emergency/legal (criminal cases) interpreters; but taxpayer-funded interpretation for voting info, taxation, driver's license exams, or just about anything else has no place here.

 

 

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#9 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 5:06 PM   
John Barreiro [Wizop]
 
From  John Barreiro [Wizop]  Posts 973  Last Jul-8
To  Bev L [France]      [Msg # 2723.9 Message 2723.9 replying to 2723.7 2723.7 ]    

Hi Bev!

You have 2 things going against you in France; You're a foreigner and you try to speak French.<g>.  The French are known for their disdain of any non French born person "butchering" their precious language.

Best,

J.


Nemo me impune lacessit

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#10 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 5:07 PM   
Bev L [France]
 
From  Bev L [France]  Posts 125  Last Oct-28
To  DickWeltz (NYC)      [Msg # 2723.10 Message 2723.10 replying to 2723.8 2723.8 ]    
OK, I'll grant you that voting is a privilege that is supposed to be extended only to citizens - and that speaking English is one of the requirements of taking US citizenship. But taxation is completely different.

You are subject to taxes simply by virtue of residing in a country, and it makes sense to try and make information about taxes accessible to the widest range of people possible. If that involves having instructions and forms available in a handful of other languages, that seems a good idea to me. (At least if the government wants to get their full share of taxes paid in.)

Driving licenses, too - you're expected to get a local license if you reside in a country for more than a year or so. I did my driving exam in German in Germany, but paid extra to take the written exam in English, simply because the test in Germany actually tests your knowledge of driving regulations and I wanted to be sure of myself when reading "tricky" questions. (There are still a few terms they used in English on the exam that I've never heard used - and my UK friends agree they've never heard the terms used before, either.)

It depends on the audience. Those instructions and exams that are not limited to US citizens should be available in at least a couple of common languages, in order to facilitate understanding of what is required. After all, some of those folks will ultimately learn enough English to become citizens... and then they will be able to vote. (I just had my chance to vote against the s.o.b.'s who were so unpleasant with me when I had my immigration hassles on coming to France. It felt real good! <eg>)
Cheers,
Bev
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#11 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 5:16 PM   
John Barreiro [Wizop]
 
From  John Barreiro [Wizop]  Posts 973  Last Jul-8
To  DickWeltz (NYC)      [Msg # 2723.11 Message 2723.11 replying to 2723.8 2723.8 ]    

Dick:

>>Every time I receive multilingual voting information in foreign languages, I see red, especially as the translations and printing are at my expense.<<

You're preaching to the converted here. <g>
Unfortunately once the bureaucracy gets started it is hard to stop. Perhaps a more conservative administration could order the GAO to look into money wasters.... --But this idiocy of printing the election materials in multiple languages filters down to the municipal level.

>>You aren't supposed to be allowed naturalization unless you have English proficiency, and you aren't allowed to vote if you're not a citizen.<<

I agree. When I became a U.S. citizen I had to pass an English proficiency test as well as a basic Civics test. Of curse, in my case it helped that I had had 4 years of High School and was in my 3rd. year of College <g>

 


Nemo me impune lacessit

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#12 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 5:48 PM   
4merCL
 
From  4merCL  Posts 338  Last Oct-27
To  Bev L [France]      [Msg # 2723.12 Message 2723.12 replying to 2723.7 2723.7 ]    

>>  and my ancestors hail from the Hexagon.   <<

the Hexagon ??

Best regards,  4merCL

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#13 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 6:11 PM   
John C
 
From  John C  Posts 27  Last Jul-29
To  4merCL      [Msg # 2723.13 Message 2723.13 replying to 2723.12 2723.12 ]    

Google provides a plethora of information:

France is shaped like a hexagon. It covers an area of 550,000 km2, which is twice as big as the United Kingdom whilst the population is around 63,5 million in each country. France has the largest area of the 27 countries in the European Union whilst Germany has the largest population.

John

Diabetes Forum
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#14 of 17

     Posted 4/2/08 7:46 PM   
DickWeltz (NYC)
 
From  DickWeltz (NYC)  Posts 191  Last Oct-28
To  Bev L [France]      [Msg # 2723.14 Message 2723.14 replying to 2723.10 2723.10 ]    

Driving licenses, too - you're expected to get a local license if you reside in a country for more than a year or so. I did my driving exam in German in Germany, but paid extra to take the written exam in English, simply because the test in Germany actually tests your knowledge of driving regulations and I wanted to be sure of myself when reading "tricky" questions. (There are still a few terms they used in English on the exam that I've never heard used - and my UK friends agree they've never heard the terms used before, either.)

I am not enamored of the idea of driving at high speeds among others who can't even understand the road signs.

In New York, they don't have the sense (read "political guts") to make English an auto driving license requirement -- but for the sake of preventing at least some blood and gore, they do require it for driving a truck.

My children and grandchildren, who live part-time in Spain and have also lived in Germany, received no concession from the bureaucracy or the public schools for their native English -- nor did they expect that they would.

For that matter, we did perfectly well in America when hordes of immigrants arrived from Germany, Poland, China, Italy, etc. without a word of English. I see no reason at all to coddle others just because they showed up a generation or so after my grandparents. In the partiular case of Spanish, we are making it possible to be born, live, and die, without ever learning any other language -- a huge social mistake, imo, supported by many local Hispanic politicians who wish to keep their constituents linguistically bound to them.

 

 

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#15 of 17

     Posted 4/3/08 10:02 PM   
hbtsea
 
From  hbtsea  Posts 2  Last 4/3/08
To  DickWeltz (NYC)      [Msg # 2723.15 Message 2723.15 replying to 2723.14 2723.14 ]    
I am not enamored of driving at high speeds among others who do understand the road signs! :-)

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#16 of 17

     Posted 4/4/08 9:16 AM   
earle robinson
 
From  earle robinson  Posts 566  Last Nov-22
To  hbtsea      [Msg # 2723.16 Message 2723.16 replying to 2723.15 2723.15 ]    (Unread)
The key is to have ideograms. Or, perhaps I should just say symbols. Europe, and much of the rest of the world other than the usa, have standardized road symbols. No need to know the language of the country so see that it is forbidden to turn left, turn right, that there is a a roundabout ahead, etc. Millions of non french speaking people drive through france each year and their accident rate is no higher than than that of the natives. It is also ironic that while each european country has its own highway code that must be learned to obtain the requisite license to drive, foreigners handle things without knowing all the intricacies of the code, but don't cause more accidents.  


-er
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#17 of 17

     Posted 4/4/08 9:58 AM   
Dennis E. Davis
 
From  Dennis E. Davis  Posts 174  Last 5/1/09
To  earle robinson      [Msg # 2723.17 Message 2723.17 replying to 2723.16 2723.16 ]    

<<Europe, and much of the rest of the world other than the usa, have standardized road symbols.>>

And a great convenience they are, too. Very slowly and intermittently they have crept into US usage, but still not to any great extent.

 

 

Dennis - Tucson
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Should interpreters be provided for a...

  
 
     

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