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Message Area
The Obama Administration

Try 9/11 as Crime, Not War?

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#1 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 9:45 AM   
Sysop Alex Krislov
 
From  Sysop Alex Krislov  Posts 19975  Last 5:37 PM
To  All      [Msg # 213609.1 ]    

President Obama's administration is taking a radically new approach toward suspects in the 9/11 attacks.  Some trials will be in the civilian courts.

Self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other Guantanamo Bay detainees will be sent to New York to face trial in a civilian federal court, and five other suspects will be sent to military commissions, an Obama administration official said Friday.

Bringing such notorious suspects to U.S. soil to face trial is a key step in Obama's plan to close the terror suspect detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Obama initially planned to close the detention center by Jan. 22, but the administration is no longer expected to meet that deadline.

It is also a major legal and political test of Obama's overall approach to terrorism. If the case suffers legal setbacks, the administration will face second-guessing from those who never wanted it in a civilian courtroom. And if lawmakers get upset about notorious terrorists being brought to their home regions, they may fight back against other parts of Obama's agenda.
  
See this link for more.

It's an approach that has many positive and negative ramifications for Obama.  Americans may enjoy seeing a 9/11 suspect --in this case, the accused planner of the attacks-- in the dock, forced to face justice.  But Americans may dislike seeing someone they perceive as a war criminal receiving the same rights that any criminal defendant enjoys.

Should  Mohammed be tried in the civilian courts?  Or is 9/11 too big a crime to treat as anything less than war?

If you were called for jury duty, could you be fair and impartial?

Tell us what you think!


Alex
Books & Writers Community
Political Debate Forum

Edited Nov-13   by  Sysop Alex Krislov
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#2 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:12 AM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 13308  Last 6:45 PM
To  Sysop Alex Krislov      [Msg # 213609.2 Message 213609.2 replying to 213609.1 213609.1 ]    

President Obama's administration is taking a radically new approach toward suspects in the 9/11 attacks.  Some trials will be in the civilian courts.

Is anyone shocked? This should do wonders for Obama's popularity polls.

So..let's get this straight...the alledged master-mind of the worst attack on America soil by outside forces in the history of our nation, Kahlid Sheikh Muhammed will get a federal civil trial...and of course the waterboarding issue will arise during the trial and perhaps allow the scumbag's lawyers to let him walk....it's feasible

Holder will also announce that a major suspect in the bombing of the USS Cole, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, will face justice before a military commission,

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/13/self-proclaimed-sept-mastermind-face-trial-ny/

 

gary


Edited Nov-13   by  nukem
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#3 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:24 AM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 13308  Last 6:45 PM
To  Sysop Alex Krislov      [Msg # 213609.3 Message 213609.3 replying to 213609.1 213609.1 ]    

Bringing such notorious suspects to U.S. soil to face trial is a key step in Obama's plan to close the terror suspect detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

I hear Amherst Mass is simply lovely this time of the year....colorful leaves and pretty trees and birds...professors and students.....and bats.....will bend over backwards to accommodate the detainees from that silly little torture chamber in Cuba.

The small college town of Amherst, Mass., voted to accept detainees released from the Guantánamo detention camp in Cuba. Congress has previously voted that Guantánamo detainees will not be allowed to settle in the US.

Mr. Belbacha, who celebrates his 40th birthday next week, has been held for nearly eight years. His attorney, Ahmed Ghappour, said in a phone interview he does not know how his client will celebrate his birthday. In Guantánamo, he said, the only privileges detainees get are a toothbrush, a blanket, and a mattress.

“Hopefully he can celebrate with news of this resolution passing,” Mr. Ghappour said. “I think Ahmed would love to move to Amherst.”

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/11/05/massachusetts-town-says-yes-to-guantanamo-detainees/

gary

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#4 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:37 AM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 4267  Last Jan-31
To  nukem      [Msg # 213609.4 Message 213609.4 replying to 213609.2 213609.2 ]    
>> So..let's get this straight...the alledged master-mind of the worst attack on America soil by outside forces in the history of our nation, Kahlid Sheikh Muhammed will get a federal civil trial. <<

I expect it'll be a federal criminal trial, Gary.



"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

Michael Steele
Chairman of the
Republican National Committee
Feb 13th, 2009
Free Your Mind.
Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus

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#5 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:39 AM   
Raven
 
From  Raven  Posts 294  Last 10:53 AM
To  All      [Msg # 213609.5 Message 213609.5 replying to 213609.2 213609.2 ]    
This is just getting weirder and weirder. Where the heck do they propose getting a jury of his PEERS?  Unless his defense team is hoping for a few more Nidal Hasan's.
This softness on TERRORISTS is swinging the pendulum too far the other way. In a reactionary attitude to waterboarding, this administration is showing how inexperienced and downright irresponsible they are.
Sure, put them on trial in NY? The first thing the defense will ask is for a change of venue.....everyone in NY will be biased, and rightfully so. Where are they to get an unbiased jury? The defense is going to have a heyday with this.

These terrorists are war criminals...these are war crimes. Changing the name of something doesn't change it's existence. Wordplay and PC are just games, not responsible actions to protect our country against these terrorists. This softness on terrorists is a boon to the terrorists recruiting drives now and in the future.



The people may be made to follow a path of action, but they may not be made to understand it.
                  Confucius
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#6 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:49 AM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 13308  Last 6:45 PM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213609.6 Message 213609.6 replying to 213609.4 213609.4 ]    

>> So..let's get this straight...the alledged master-mind of the worst attack on America soil by outside forces in the history of our nation, Kahlid Sheikh Muhammed will get a federal civil trial. <<

I expect it'll be a federal criminal trial, Gary.

A federal criminal trial tried in a civil court.

Self-proclaimed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other Guantanamo Bay detainees will be sent to New York to face trial in a civilian federal court. An official announcement is expected later today.

http://www.newser.com/story/73968/mastermind-of-911-to-face-trial-in-nyc.html

gary

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#7 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:52 AM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 4267  Last Jan-31
To  Raven      [Msg # 213609.7 Message 213609.7 replying to 213609.5 213609.5 ]    
>> Where the heck do they propose getting a jury of his PEERS? <<

The normal federal jury pools will suffice.



>> This softness on TERRORISTS is swinging the pendulum too far the other way. <<

Bringing them to trial is "softness?"



"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

Michael Steele
Chairman of the
Republican National Committee
Feb 13th, 2009
Free Your Mind.
Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#8 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:54 AM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 4267  Last Jan-31
To  nukem      [Msg # 213609.8 Message 213609.8 replying to 213609.6 213609.6 ]    
>> A federal criminal trial tried in a civil court. <<

No, it'll be in a civilian criminal court, Gary.  Is the terminology confusing you?



"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

Michael Steele
Chairman of the
Republican National Committee
Feb 13th, 2009
Free Your Mind.
Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus

 OptionsReply to this Message Reply

#9 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 10:59 AM   
Harry Flashman
 
From  Harry Flashman  Posts 1255  Last Dec-14
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213609.9 Message 213609.9 replying to 213609.8 213609.8 ]    

>> A federal criminal trial tried in a civil court. <<

==No, it'll be in a civilian criminal court, Gary.  Is the terminology confusing you?

<chuckle> :::eyes rolling::::

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#10 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 11:01 AM   
Sysop Alex Krislov
 
From  Sysop Alex Krislov  Posts 19975  Last 5:37 PM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213609.10 Message 213609.10 replying to 213609.7 213609.7 ]    

The normal federal jury pools will suffice.

I've got a problem with that.  It seems to me that at this point, it would take little to make a valid argument for contamination of the jury pool.  This guy's picture --and assumed guilt-- have been splashed all over the news media without pause for several years now.  It would be like the infamous Sam Sheppard case (the one the show "The Fugitive" was based on).  There would inevitably be a circus atomosphere around the whole thing.


Alex
Books & Writers Community
Political Debate Forum
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#11 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 11:16 AM   
gordonhofer
 
From  gordonhofer  Posts 32924  Last 10:25 AM
To  Sysop Alex Krislov      [Msg # 213609.11 Message 213609.11 replying to 213609.1 213609.1 ]    
Self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other Guantanamo Bay detainees will be sent to New York to face trial in a civilian federal court,

This may be Obama's worst decision yet. These five terrorists will be provided with all of the Constitutional protections that American citizens have. It's easy to imagine the following exchange:

Q: Mr. Mohammed, were the Miranda Rights read to you before any questioning took place?
A:  No

Defense Attorney: Your Honor, we move for the exclusion of any evidence obtained as a direct or indirect result of anything my client might have said or implied during any questioning or conversation.

Judge: So ordered.

This is just another, and the most egregious, example that Obama is completely unqualified for the job. He's permanently locked in campaign mode because that's all his handlers know how to do.
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#12 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 11:23 AM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 13308  Last 6:45 PM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213609.12 Message 213609.12 replying to 213609.8 213609.8 ]    

Is the terminology confusing you?


 It will be a federal trial...in a civilian court. Yes Michael..it will be a criminal trial. Those 9-11 perps are criminals..allegedly. They'll probably have excellent lawyers..and why not? Some of them may even walk...we'll have to wait and see.

It isn't the terminology that confuses me...it's the current administration and those who support every move they make that confounds me..

gary


Edited Nov-13   by  nukem
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#13 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 11:27 AM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 13308  Last 6:45 PM
To  Harry Flashman      [Msg # 213609.13 Message 213609.13 replying to 213609.9 213609.9 ]    

No, it'll be in a civilian criminal court, Gary.  Is the terminology confusing you?

<chuckle> :::eyes rolling::::

Anyone who supports the current administration confuses me.

gary

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#14 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:02 PM   
Juin
 
From  Juin  Posts 5736  Last 2:31 PM
To  gordonhofer      [Msg # 213609.14 Message 213609.14 replying to 213609.11 213609.11 ]    

gordon>>This may be Obama's worst decision yet.

This guy appears to be incredibly out of touch and idealistic; only Jimmy Carter comes close.

I can already forsee him calling up a Justice Summit after the trials hopelessly gets boged down. All Sheriffs, boy scouts, Judges, civil rights activists are called to a major Justice Summit in DC by Obama to discuss how to get terrorists back in jail where they belong.

 

gordon>> These five terrorists will be provided with all of the Constitutional protections that American citizens have. It's easy to imagine the following exchange:

Q: Mr. Mohammed, were the Miranda Rights read to you before any questioning took place?
A:  No

Defense Attorney: Your Honor, we move for the exclusion of any evidence obtained as a direct or indirect result of anything my client might have said or implied during any questioning or conversation.

Judge: So ordered.<<

Right now Obama is trying to blame his incompetence in Afghanistan on Karzai. That is not surprising. Obama and co are hoping that the Courts will oblige them by not doing their duties and setting Mr Mohammad free; soon the messiah will start grumbling about not having a partner in the court system <g>

gordon>>This is just another, and the most egregious, example that Obama is completely unqualified for the job. He's permanently locked in campaign mode because that's all his handlers know how to do.<<

He cannot believe that the crowds that thronged to his campaign rallies may not be still there.

 

Juin


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#15 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:11 PM   
David C.
 
From  David C.  Posts 10761  Last 4:11 PM
To  Juin      [Msg # 213609.15 Message 213609.15 replying to 213609.14 213609.14 ]    

Obama and co are hoping that the Courts will oblige them by not doing their duties and setting Mr Mohammad free

Letting our fantasies run away with us again, are we?

-David C.



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#16 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:15 PM   
David C.
 
From  David C.  Posts 10761  Last 4:11 PM
To  nukem      [Msg # 213609.16 Message 213609.16 replying to 213609.2 213609.2 ]    

So..let's get this straight...the alledged master-mind of the worst attack on America soil by outside forces in the history of our nation, Kahlid Sheikh Muhammed will get a federal civil trial...and of course the waterboarding issue will arise during the trial and perhaps allow the scumbag's lawyers to let him walk....it's feasible

It's not a civil trial, and yes you are right about the dangers, in law, of waterboarding.

The answer, of course, was not to go against the law like that in the first place.

However, FWIW, I have more confidence in the due process of law than you do.

After all, it is one of the things that makes America better than these terrorists.  Isn't it?

-David C.



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#17 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:20 PM   
gordonhofer
 
From  gordonhofer  Posts 32924  Last 10:25 AM
To  David C.      [Msg # 213609.17 Message 213609.17 replying to 213609.16 213609.16 ]    
After all, it is one of the things that makes America better than these terrorists.

Under what theory (other than a political campaign) are terrorists entitled to the full protection of the US Constitution?
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#18 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:27 PM   
David C.
 
From  David C.  Posts 10761  Last 4:11 PM
To  gordonhofer      [Msg # 213609.18 Message 213609.18 replying to 213609.17 213609.17 ]    

Under what theory (other than a political campaign) are terrorists entitled to the full protection of the US Constitution?

I have no idea.

I was talking about the law. In fact, didn't I use that word  -    'law'?

I have a question now.  Under what theory does it say that it's illegal to commit murder, or computer fraud, or cycling on the wrong side of the road, in the US Constitution?

-David C.



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#19 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:32 PM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 13308  Last 6:45 PM
To  David C.      [Msg # 213609.19 Message 213609.19 replying to 213609.16 213609.16 ]    

It's not a civil trial,

So...the 9-11 mastermind (alledged of course) will be tried in a NY civilian court. He will be afforded all the rights American civilians have. 9-11 was a war crime.

Civilian Courts Are No Place to Try Terrorists

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574475300052267212.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular

gary


Edited Nov-13   by  nukem
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#20 of 534

     Posted Nov-13 12:37 PM   
gordonhofer
 
From  gordonhofer  Posts 32924  Last 10:25 AM
To  David C.      [Msg # 213609.20 Message 213609.20 replying to 213609.18 213609.18 ]    
I have a question now.  Under what theory does it say that it's illegal to commit murder, or computer fraud, or cycling on the wrong side of the road, in the US Constitution?

Except for treason, the Constitution doesn't deal with specific crimes. Powers not specifically granted to Congress, such as to pass laws about riding bicycles, are reserved to the states.

It does, however, deal with the protection of specific rights. Now, under what theory are terrorists included in those protections?
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The Obama Administration

Try 9/11 as Crime, Not War?

  
 
     
 
 

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