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Vista/Windows 7 Discussions

32 or 64 vista

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#1 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 8:42 AM   
PatMazuel (France)
 
From  PatMazuel (France)  Posts 60  Last Nov-2
To  All      [Msg # 192716.1 ]    
Hi,

I'm running XP pro on my desktop and vista business 32 on my 2 laptops.

I'm buying a new desktop and I am trying to decide if I want vista 32 or 64.

The obvious advantage as I see it, is the 64 should be faster since I can use more RAM.
But I am a bit concerned about running programs that are not written for 64 bits.

I use office 2003 / 2007  Visual Fox Pro 8, and 9 as my main programs, I also have cisco installed to connect to my clients , but I have loads of other programs that will be  installed ie norton, nero, itunes, embroidery software , PCanywhere, blackberry sync...
I intend to install a XP virtual machine, but want to use it as little as possible, it'll be there just in case.

A tec is putting the machine together for me, so he will make sure all the components are compatible.
But what about the peripherals ?

Also I think "Mandatory driver signing" could be a problem.
What about ADSL modem/routers ? USB headsets ? or printers ? ex HP  ex, I have an old HP laserjet 6P that I definately won't replace till it dies.

My main reason for considering vista 64 is speed.
If I'm replacing my old XP it is because it is now a bit sluggish, so I don't want to replace it to find out the new one isn't any faster.

TIA for any input.

P
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#2 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 11:01 AM   
Mase
 
From  Mase  Posts 61  Last Nov-24
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.2 Message 192716.2 replying to 192716.1 192716.1 ]    
One thing you could do is contact the makers of the software you want to run on 64 and see if their product will run on 64-bit Windows, or if not, do they provide a 64-bit version and what, if anything it would cost you....

As I see it the main advantage of Windows 64 is the ability to install/use more RAM.  The downside is software compatibility and availability of hardware drivers.
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#3 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 11:04 AM   
K. Barthelmess
 
From  K. Barthelmess  Posts 94  Last Jul-8
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.3 Message 192716.3 replying to 192716.1 192716.1 ]    

> The obvious advantage as I see it, is the 64 should be faster since I can use more RAM.
> But I am a bit concerned about running programs that are not written for 64 bits.

Applications (not Windows 64 itself) written for Windows 32 will not have access to any more memory than they do now. You will be able to fit more of them into RAM. Are you having issues with getting everything you want into memory now?

Good luck.

Kurt

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#4 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 11:18 AM   
PatMazuel (France)
 
From  PatMazuel (France)  Posts 60  Last Nov-2
To  Mase      [Msg # 192716.4 Message 192716.4 replying to 192716.2 192716.2 ]    
>> One thing you could do is contact the makers of the software you want to run on 64 and see if their product will run on 64-bit Windows,
That would be impossible, first there is too many, second I'm not even sure of the programs I will need.

But thanks for the suggestion.

p
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#5 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 11:33 AM   
PatMazuel (France)
 
From  PatMazuel (France)  Posts 60  Last Nov-2
To  K. Barthelmess      [Msg # 192716.5 Message 192716.5 replying to 192716.3 192716.3 ]    

>>Are you having issues with getting everything you want into memory now?
Good question, not really sure of the answer. But don't think so,  I do have problems once in a great while with Word 2007

My only reason to change PC's is that mine is slow, I have had it for about 2 1/2 years, maybe 3 1/2, can't remember, but it is time to change.
pentium 4  3.2 GHz  2 Go Ram
The slowness also started when I installed office 2007. Obviously it takes more resources .

>>Applications (not Windows 64 itself) written for Windows 32 will not have access to any more memory than they do now
I didn't realise that, so quite possibly windows 64 won't help me much at all.
I don't usually run 50 programs at the same time.

Thanks, your input is making me see a bit clearer.

P


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#6 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 11:46 AM   
John Crea/WUGNET
 
From  John Crea/WUGNET  Posts 856  Last 4/17/09
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.6 Message 192716.6 replying to 192716.5 192716.5 ]    
Any modern Core2Duo or Core2Quad CPU will run at least 2x as fast as your old P4 - especially if you get one running at least 2.4gHz or faster

The absolute FASTEST CPUs today are the NEW Intel i7 CPUs, so since you are having a machine built, if performance is your goal, then the i7 CPU is going to be the best bet for best performance - assuming your builder has not already bought an old mobo and CPU it should be possible to change the specs on the new machine so you get the latest and greatest.  Probably no need to go with the i7 Extreme CPU (they run about $1k right now), even the slowest i7 will run rings around your old machine. 

If you are NOT running anything that eats gobs of ram (like PhotoShop), then for MAX compatability with old software go with Vista32.  I have Vista64 and had to install a VM to run a couple of programs that would NOT install under V64, due to the fact that V64 will NOT run any 16bit software - which included the install apps for many older 32bit software (programmers went the cheap route in not going with a 32bit installer when they wrote the 32bit application)  I know tha the ONLY way to run/install the old CIS software was to do it in a VM on the V64 machine

Otherwise, except for a couple of very old applications, everthing I have tried to run under V64 has installed and run fine

John - WUGNET
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#7 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 12:30 PM   
PatMazuel (France)
 
From  PatMazuel (France)  Posts 60  Last Nov-2
To  John Crea/WUGNET      [Msg # 192716.7 Message 192716.7 replying to 192716.6 192716.6 ]    
John,

No nothing has been ordered yet, he is waiting for my choices, so thanks for the input.
I do run photoshop and flash, but not often, and not with many files open at the same time.

I thnk I just may stick with vista 32

Thanks
Patricia
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#8 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 12:31 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 2618  Last Jul-7
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.8 Message 192716.8 replying to 192716.1 192716.1 ]    

If you use your computer to produce money to live on then I'd go for a 32bit version rather than the 64bit, just for simplicity. Much more important to get good solid reliable hardware and concentrate on known bottlenecks, which may not be the memory?

I can tell you that the current (2009) versions of Norton IS and AV work under VISTA 64  but not all aspects of ancilliary functions do including I believe Right Mouse Click context menus.

On driver signing, someone else perhaps can comment on this but the other day when I was looking for something else (why a paper dictionary or encyclopedia is so educational) I came across a statement on a Microsoft page that seemed to indicate that you could tell VISTA 64 to ignore Driver Signing.

Sorry but I did not bookmark it since I'm not using 64bit.

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#9 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 12:37 PM   
PatMazuel (France)
 
From  PatMazuel (France)  Posts 60  Last Nov-2
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 192716.9 Message 192716.9 replying to 192716.8 192716.8 ]    
I do use my computers for a livelyhood, and as you can tell, I am worried about compatibility.

I'll look up the article on telling vista 64 to ignore the signing, but as I have seen from these discusions here, i've pretty much decided to go with vista 32.

Thanks, this forum and the people on it, are always helpful and it is well appreciated

Thanks
P
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#10 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 5:14 PM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9155  Last 2:31 AM
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.10 Message 192716.10 replying to 192716.1 192716.1 ]    

>>the 64 should be faster

Nope.  64 bit instructins run SLOWER than their 32-bit counterparts.  Also, just because Ram is "available" does not translate to it being USED...

64 bit DRIVERS are still an issue.  If you have plder stuff (printers, scanners, etc.) make sure there are 64-bit drivers available BEFORE you make the move...

>> I think "Mandatory driver signing" could be a problem.

That's what I was refering to with DRIVERS - 64 REQUIRES signed drivers...

>>My main reason for considering vista 64 is speed

Wrong reason for considering 64, IMHO.  Go 64 if you have apps that REQUIRE more than 2G application space (photo editing, video rendering, that kind of thing)...

If you are looking for "pure speed", go with Intel's just released I7 - the Quad-core part that sells in the $300 range here in the states runs FASTER than the Core-2 Quad-Core chip that sells for $1500.  It also uses triple-chanel DDR3 Memory that has far more bandwidth than what Core-2 Duo can provide...

You get "speed" from the hardware, not the bitsize of the OS unsless you are running a specific application that is memory constrained in the 32 bit realm...

 


Edited 11/25/08   by  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
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#11 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 5:49 PM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 697  Last Nov-24
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 192716.11 Message 192716.11 replying to 192716.10 192716.10 ]    

>> I think "Mandatory driver signing" could be a problem.

That's what I was refering to with DRIVERS - 64 REQUIRES signed drivers...


Well, I hope Microsoft does a better job than they did with XP/SP3!


KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
Attachments
Name:   SP3SecurityCert.jpgSize:   38 K

Edited 11/25/08   by  Dan in Saint Louis
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#12 of 51

     Posted 11/25/08 8:10 PM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9155  Last 2:31 AM
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 192716.12 Message 192716.12 replying to 192716.11 192716.11 ]    

I don't know what generates the message you posted, but as far as I know a signed .CAT file is required in 64 bit land...

I don't run Vista 64 any longer - I looked at it in the Beta stage but never went past that...

Were you running this locally or over a Lan?

 

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#13 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 3:00 AM   
PatMazuel (France)
 
From  PatMazuel (France)  Posts 60  Last Nov-2
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 192716.13 Message 192716.13 replying to 192716.10 192716.10 ]    
<<If you are looking for "pure speed", go with Intel's just released I7 - the Quad-core part that sells in the $300 range here in the states runs FASTER than the Core-2 Quad-Core chip that sells for $1500.  It also uses triple-chanel DDR3 Memory that has far more bandwidth than what Core-2 Duo can provide...

Thanks, I'll look into that one.

What do you think the difference in speed would be having this processor but with XP.
I'm not considering staying with XP, just wondering if XP would be faster.

The vistas' I have on my laptops aren't that fast, on one it is normal, although a fairly new laptop , the processor isn't that fast. I knew it when I bought it but wasn't the most important object in my choices, I was looking for size and weight.
For the other laptop, I am a bit dissapponted in the speed, but again the choice in laptops isn't as wide as in desktops.

P
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#14 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 9:46 AM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 697  Last Nov-24
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 192716.14 Message 192716.14 replying to 192716.12 192716.12 ]    
I don't know what generates the message you posted

The image attached to message #11 was generated by WinXP/SP2 upon attempting to open a local full-install copy of SP3 downloaded from Microsoft.

KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#15 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 9:48 AM   
John Crea/WUGNET
 
From  John Crea/WUGNET  Posts 856  Last 4/17/09
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.15 Message 192716.15 replying to 192716.13 192716.13 ]    
On the SAME hardware, XP is always FASTER than Vista, just as Win2k was faster than XP on the same hardware.  MS introduces BLOAT in every new OS that makes it SLOWER than the OS it is replacing, usually with HIGHER resource requirements, and the need for more RAM, faster CPU, etc just to keep up with the older OS

So, stay with XP if you want the FASTEST machine compared to the same hardware platform under VISTA

John
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#16 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 10:05 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9155  Last 2:31 AM
To  PatMazuel (France)      [Msg # 192716.16 Message 192716.16 replying to 192716.13 192716.13 ]    

>>What do you think the difference in speed would be having this processor but with XP.

Blazingly FAST (compared to your current configuration).  The i7 is the fastest thing Intel makes that is available for the Desktop...

>>The vistas' I have on my laptops aren't that fast,

When doing what operations?  How much Ram on the Laptop?  If anything less than 2G, that often will be a reason for performance issues...

>>the processor isn't that fast

Are you doing CPU intensive things?  Most any CPU purchased today is faster than the Pentium 4 you have in the Desktop...

Also, believe it or not, SOME new Laptops shipped with a 4200 RPM HD.  That will be "slower" that the more common 5400 RPM drive.  I have not seen a major performance difference with 7200 RPM Sata drives, FWIW...

 


Edited 11/26/08   by  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
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#17 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 10:07 AM   
Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)  Posts 9155  Last 2:31 AM
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 192716.17 Message 192716.17 replying to 192716.14 192716.14 ]    

Do you have IE 7 installed?  The reason I ask is that I have run that SP2 download a few times and I don't recall seeing that message...

 

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#18 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 10:33 AM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 697  Last Nov-24
To  Dale G. Shields (Wugnet)      [Msg # 192716.18 Message 192716.18 replying to 192716.17 192716.17 ]    
Do you have IE 7 installed?

Version 7.0.5730.13. I only got that error message on one of three machines to which I applied the SP3 download. Chalk it up to Windows.............

KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#19 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 12:20 PM   
Jerry Lippey/WUGNET
 
From  Jerry Lippey/WUGNET  Posts 7036  Last Nov-24
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 192716.19 Message 192716.19 replying to 192716.14 192716.14 ]    
FWIW, Dan, I get that message quite frequently (in 32-bit Windows Vista) when opening installation files. No idea why. I ignore it.      -Jerry
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#20 of 51

     Posted 11/26/08 2:01 PM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 697  Last Nov-24
To  Jerry Lippey/WUGNET      [Msg # 192716.20 Message 192716.20 replying to 192716.19 192716.19 ]    
Yeah, I know. I just grinned at the folly of Microsoft and clicked "Run."

KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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Vista/Windows 7 Discussions

32 or 64 vista

  
 
     

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