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TRIBAL DRUM-HOT TOPICS

The President & The Noble Peace Prize

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#1 of 40

     Posted Oct-10 10:41 PM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  All      [Msg # 23754.1 ]    
President Obama, has been presented the Noble Peace Prize nine months into his Presidency. Do you feel this was premature? Does this give the President additional political capital?
Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#2 of 40

     Posted Oct-13 8:55 PM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.2 Message 23754.2 replying to 23754.1 23754.1 ]    
No one else has replied, I am sorry to see, as I am interested in knowing what others think, too!

I feel almost apologetic to say this, and also wonder if I am missing what the Nobel Prize committee "saw", but I think it is premature and I think that Obama did not look very happy when he gave his little speech in the Rose Garden.  He looked serious and it could be that it was the seriousness of the importance of the what he had been awarded, but I cannot help but wonder if he was also unhappy to have been given a prize he truly did not think he had earned.  In other works, I wonder if he felt he was put into an uncomfortable spot.

Some people say that he earned it not just by his decisions and wisdom in office as President, but also by virtue of having had the guts and vision to make it as the first black American president.

But I feel that the award should be for what he has done as President and I think that he of course has shown exceptional vision and courage and wisdom - but let's give it a little time to see what the next 3 years bring!

The audience gasped when his name was announced, and I think that this is because many people are not comfortable with this decision.

What do you think, Othello?

Martha
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#3 of 40

     Posted Oct-13 11:51 PM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.3 Message 23754.3 replying to 23754.2 23754.2 ]    
What do I think......... Let me see, well there have been several Noble Peace Prize winners who have done less than the President. In some cases the committee gives the award based on the potential for the individual to bring about peaceful change.

I think the President certainly has that potential. As for his comments afterwards he was stunned, after all they had to wake him up to tell him about it. I finally feel the award is a good thing and continues to validate his Presidency especially after he has been under attack with little effect on his agenda, So for now let's congratulate him on a big win and enjoy it. Deal?
Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#4 of 40

     Posted Oct-14 8:27 AM   
en400
 
From  en400  Posts 2  Last Oct-15
To  All      [Msg # 23754.4 Message 23754.4 replying to 23754.3 23754.3 ]    

The deadline for Pulitzer prize awardees was February 1st. What possibly could he
have accomplished, mere days after he was elected?

Others have worked their entire lives and sacrificed everything toward their goal.

I think it was the "trendy" thing to do and the significance of the peace prize has
been diminished.

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#5 of 40

     Posted Oct-14 8:59 AM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.5 Message 23754.5 replying to 23754.3 23754.3 ]    
Hi Otello,

You know I voted for and cried for Obama when he won and in many (not all, mind you) cases I still root for him for what he is doing (to me he is too hawkish on war).

But I didn't know what you said: I think of Jimmy Carter, the women who worked for peace in N. Ireland at their physical peril, I think if Mother Teresa and Amnesty International:  Who are you thinking of who had only shown potential?
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#6 of 40

     Posted Oct-14 11:35 PM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.6 Message 23754.6 replying to 23754.5 23754.5 ]    
Well for starters people who win usually spell my name correctly LOL. I have some in mind and I will share but I think the point needs to be made that the committee clearly stated why they awarded The President this honor it said "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples.." No one can say he hasn't done that and continues to do so. He even traveled to Cairo for this very purpose."

As I stated many has received the award because of their potential, Oh how many African American Presidents are there shouldn't that in and of itself count for something. Also look at how our country is viewed in 9 shorts months after 8 years of Bush and Chaney totally different.


Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#7 of 40

     Posted Oct-15 10:03 AM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.7 Message 23754.7 replying to 23754.6 23754.6 ]    
<<why they awarded The President this honor it said "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples.." No one can say he hasn't done that and continues to do so. He even traveled to Cairo for this very purpose.">>

This link includes the video of his speech in Cairo, masterful and profound, as always.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/04/obama-cairo-speech-video_n_211210.html

<<As I stated many has received the award because of their potential, Oh how many African American Presidents are there shouldn't that in and of itself count for something.>>   It does!  How many times I have thought to myself: This guy had the mettle to overcome bias enough to get himself elected President - dealing with all kinds of allegations, stereotypes and hatred.  But I always felt he was a class unto himself. And that's why Americans of all races elected him, and why they still greatly respect and admire him.  He is truly extraordinary.

<< Also look at how our country is viewed in 9 shorts months after 8 years of Bush and Chaney totally different.>>

The day Obama was elected that was true!

Nevertheless, Othello, I guess one has to distinguish between Obama as candidate/newly elected President, with his already impressive (remarkable, memorable!) speeches and declarations, his steering in the right direction in his first months, etc. and the Obama that could be and I am expecting, will be, after 3 more years, or more, as President.

I guess I feel that an award like the Nobel should be for accomplishments which have a lasting impact.  Sure, having been elected the first African American President of the U.S. has a lasting impact, but does that mean that the prize automatically goes to the person who achieves this goal?

Obama needs to do more over the long haul, IMO.  I am not questioning his abilities and brilliance, his self discipline and character, of course.  I am questionning what he has been able to even do thus far.


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#8 of 40

     Posted Oct-15 10:07 AM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.8 Message 23754.8 replying to 23754.6 23754.6 ]    
<<Well for starters people who win usually spell my name correctly LOL.>>

I have a problem with the idea that someone has never heard of Othello in The Merchant of Venice  by Shakespeare.  Most high schools teach this play, or else I am out of date....
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#9 of 40

     Posted Oct-16 1:24 PM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.9 Message 23754.9 replying to 23754.7 23754.7 ]    
I am not questioning his abilities and brilliance, his self discipline and character, of course.  I am questioning what he has been able to even do thus far.

Martha;

    Thanks for your comments. Personally I feel this man has worked very hard in his nine months in office. The criticism he has received is unwarranted and again he has only been in office nine months. Much of this criticism is political and I think anyone with half a brain knows that, the other part is racist people who don't like having a black President.

    I am proud of The Presidents efforts so far he has come closer to fixing health care than even Bill Clinton and dare I say it. I think he will get it done. He has brought our economy back from the brink and in his spare time he is managing two wars where thousands of Americans are in harms way. What else can we expect from one man?
Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#10 of 40

     Posted Oct-16 2:08 PM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.10 Message 23754.10 replying to 23754.9 23754.9 ]    
Othello,

I have to complement you, sincerely, as you wrote a wonderful and true summary of what Obama, the Amazing One <s>, has accomplished thus far in office.

Do you think that fully half of the critics are doing it due to race?   I had assumed it was maybe only 1/6th of the critics.

When you think of it, Obama already did a lot of his homework before he even began his campaign as a candidate.  He already had been thinking about the health care issue, and while candidate he was using the best advisors to come up with a proposed response to the fall of the banks, lenders and insurance companies.

I think that he did so much homework that he only revised his plans when in office.

I know what you are saying, but I still say: give it more time.  We don't even have new health insurance legislation passed yet.  And, Paul Krugman, the Nobel laureate and economist, is critical of Obama's "tepid" bailout package.  He said it wasn't enough.
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#11 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 12:01 AM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.11 Message 23754.11 replying to 23754.10 23754.10 ]    
Martha'

     For the next four years and beyond nothing will ever be enough. I don't think it's half of the people who don't like the President because he's African American but there is a part of the population that doesn't care for him. You have to understand the majority in this country is about to become the minority. Many see The Presidents election as the first step in minorities taking over.

     I don't know about you but I haven't received any clandestined email with plans for a takeover so it's all for naught unless you got one? :-)
Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#12 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 9:11 AM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.12 Message 23754.12 replying to 23754.11 23754.11 ]    
<<You have to understand the majority in this country is about to become the minority.>>

Yes, I do know that.  I am of  white ancestry, but now my blood family includes "minority" people of Latino ancestry due to intermarriage and their children.  The younger generation, very close in blood lines, have been seriously dating blacks of American and African nationality.  I grew up in such a different world, I will admit to you - not one in which interracial marriage was objected to (in my particular family), but in which it had not yet happened.  I was out of the loop a lot more than I am now.





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#13 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 9:20 AM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.13 Message 23754.13 replying to 23754.11 23754.11 ]    
<<Many see The Presidents election as the first step in minorities taking over.>>

I hope I am not talking down to you when I say:  Yes, but many (whites) see the President's election as a tremendous relief, at long last, it's about time, etc.  All of my friends and family are included in that feeling.    But I guess you are not surprised when you know that, thankfully, for every white who is happy to see an African American first family and President there is (I hope, maybe I am wrong) less than one white who sees this "as the beginning of the end, etc.".

Othello, things have changed so much for me in my own life!  I attended an all white (token 3 blacks) Catholic women's college and it never dawned on me in those days, the 60's, how wrong this was.    I am sorry to say but that is my history.    But when I go back to that same college, which is now co-ed, and meet kids of African American and other ethnicities in large number, alumni of African American heritage, etc. (our school actively recruits, I would say, aggressively, A.A. and kids of other "minorities"), it seems very normal to me already.  But I live in a neighborhood which is truly inter-racial so that feels normal to me now.
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#14 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 10:58 AM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.14 Message 23754.14 replying to 23754.12 23754.12 ]    
Welcome to the Loop Martha :-)
Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#15 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 11:34 AM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.15 Message 23754.15 replying to 23754.14 23754.14 ]    
Othello,

I am still out of the loop more than half way.   Because I don't work and don't get to meet new people and my old friends are all white or Latino.  We have been involved in volunteer work with Latino immigrants (who suffer a great deal of discrimination and there have been murders of them by young white males), and so this is the world I know best.

(I could start a thread on how African Americans view the undocumented, especially from Central/South America.  I am in strong disagreement with the attitude of many African Americans in this area and not afraid to say that.)

A younger generation male in my family, a very close relative, went to an Ivy League school and his girlfriend was African American when he was around 28.  He was courting her, seeking a wife.  (He ended up marrying a Mexican American instead.)  Anyway, I asked him (he is almost 38 now): At your college, when you were there, if you dated a black girl, how many of your classmates would raise their eyebrows, etc. ?  He held his fingers in a zero shape.  He said absolutely no one in his college would even care, and this goes back 17 or 18 years ago.  I was very surprised, but he would be pretty honest.  I think that in some of the more, shall we say, "prestigious" schools, maybe, the kids are ahead of the curve.  I am not saying that privilege makes kids more progressive (!), far from it, but maybe the school environments in these places are more aware, more progressive.  Then again, many times I have heard that black staffers and students at Harvard have had bad experiences.

But my relative was just being honest and he said that to me when I asked him.  He would have told me the opposite it it were true.  His sister, another Ivy grad, has been going out with an African immigrant for years and it is no biggie, that's for sure.  No one even cares, to be honest.  It's a new day. 
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#16 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 4:01 PM   
Othello
 
From  Othello  Posts 2847  Last Nov-8
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.16 Message 23754.16 replying to 23754.15 23754.15 ]    
It's a new day

Isn't that a song by the black eyed peas? :-) Thanks for your incite the information you provided was very helpful in seeing things from the other side..
Othello

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

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#17 of 40

     Posted Oct-18 6:48 PM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.17 Message 23754.17 replying to 23754.16 23754.16 ]    
<<Isn't that a song by the black eyed peas? :-)>>

Well, now that you mention it - yes, that's a really great oldie, but, not being African American and having spent my life listening to classical music mostly and Irish traditional music second, I could not have told you who that was, the Blackeyed Peas!<ggg>

I was about 28 when my (Brooklyn born Jewish housemate, when I had many housemates and was really poor!) played Aretha Franklin on a record for me and I nearly died as I thought she was out of this world.  Then, I introduced her to Puccini and "La Boheme" and we were even.

I have a suspicion that you are "old" like me.  (I passed my 60th birthday.)  Not to say that we are out of date, no!  But we have memories of when the world was truly different.  I cannot tell you how I never realized, till she told me, my colleague in a school program, an African American lady maybe 7 or 8 years my senior, told me that she attended all segregated schools in the south.  It had not dawned on me that this could be her experience.

But my young relative, the Ivy guy, when he told me how zero people at his (famous) school would have even given a hoot what he did re: dating whomever, I was, I admit, surprised.  I thought he'd say, oh, you know, there's always that 25%.  Instead, he very firmly stated that it was "no one" who'd care.

I often think of how it would have rocked my social world, when I was growing up, if anyone had done as B. Obama's mother had done, and married an African immigrant.  I mean a white person in my neighborhood, social circle.  It would have been (speaking honestly) completely, utterly unimaginable.  Not always due to prejudice, as much as you or some may have trouble believing.  It just was more that it was so "strange", so unusual to go out of the normative social circle.

Now, it is (especially here in NYC) a "zero" issue <ggg>.  For anyone.

Come to think of it, my neighbors are an African American guy (30's) and his European born, white female mate.  I have to think about it to remember this, as it is so blah, so who cares, and this is a galaxy away from when I was a child, and I would hazard a guess for you the same, am I right?


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#18 of 40

     Posted Oct-25 5:57 AM   
JAD
 
From  JAD  Posts 378  Last Nov-4
To  Othello      [Msg # 23754.18 Message 23754.18 replying to 23754.1 23754.1 ]    
O,
           
             I know this article is off the subject, but, I think you would find it interesting and may be even funny:




Rush Was Punked: “Obama Thesis” Hoax

by Claudine Zap

It must have seemed so perfect. An obscure blogger unearths some pages of President Obama's college thesis. The report supposedly comes from big-time journalist Joe Klein of Time magazine. And the thesis has some real gems: like Obama's disdain for the Constitution.

The whole thing was nothing more than a satirical post on a humor blog. But Rush Limbaugh, who quoted from the supposed thesis on his radio show, sure wasn't laughing. Here's how it went down.

An unknown blogger picked up on a made-up post meant as a joke, which claimed that Joe Klein had gotten his hands on 10 pages of student Obama's college thesis. Rush Limbaugh jumped on it, which immediately sparked Web searches on "obama thesis."

Supposedly titled "Aristocracy Revisited," the excerpt revealed the president had "doubts" about the "so-called founders." Juicy. Except not true. Limbaugh discovered halfway through his show that he'd been had, but defended himself by saying basically the thesis felt true. Listen in to Rush's mea sorta culpa.

Joe Klein finally jumped in, and called the report "nonsense" on his Swampland blog, and the blogger who thought the hoax was real also apologized.

Let's hope someone kept their sense of humor in all this. Still, for a humble post to go from humor blog to major media outlet sure seems impressive. Someone ought to write their thesis on it. For real.


"The man of integrity walks securely"

Proverbs 10:9


Edited Oct-25   by  JAD
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#19 of 40

     Posted Oct-29 5:02 PM   
Luby
 
From  Luby  Posts 28  Last Nov-3
To  Martha Anne      [Msg # 23754.19 Message 23754.19 replying to 23754.2 23754.2 ]    
but also by virtue of having had the guts and vision to make it as the first black American president.

You don't consider the 50% Caucasian half of him at all? 
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#20 of 40

     Posted Oct-29 7:06 PM   
Martha Anne
 
From  Martha Anne  Posts 59  Last Nov-4
To  Luby      [Msg # 23754.20 Message 23754.20 replying to 23754.19 23754.19 ]    
<<You don't consider the 50% Caucasian half of him at all? >>

I "don't consider"?

Why do you ask that?  Please explain what you mean in some detail, not just a one liner question.
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The President & The Noble Peace Prize

  
 
     

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