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Topic: Solutions for the new Century

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Contentious Brethren

All burned up over hell 3

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#1 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 4:14 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.1 ]    
Harold

reply to # 119312.297

>>MY: the sinners are righteous,<

Hd: That makes no sense at all and won't get a response but this one.<

You don’t understand a basic, critical point of the Gospel?

>>MY: Abraham was a sinner but he was considered righteous,<

Hd: He repented.<

That didn’t make him righteous.

>>MY: David was a sinner but he was considered righteous.<

Hd: He repented. He actually spent a week on his face repenting. I don't know how long Abe spent, but you  can bet he did.<

David could have spent a lifetime repenting but it wouldn’t have made him righteous.

>>MY: Those who are saved are no longer filthy or unjust.<

Hd: Right.<

But repenting and obeying the Law did not make them righteous.

“What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has [something] to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: "Blessed [are those] whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed [is the] man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."” (Romans 4:1-8 NKJV)

Abraham was not justified by works, that is he was not justified by repenting or by not sinning – they are works.

>>MY: Don’t see anything there about probation<

Hd: Dan.9:24  24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the  transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in  everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

They didn't.<

They didn’t what?

Martin
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#2 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 4:16 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.2 Message 119699.2 replying to 119699.1 119699.1 ]    
Harold

reply to # 119312.300

>>MY: Jesus never had Adam’s sinful nature.<

Hd: I don't know who your teacher is, but I strongly suggest you get a new one.

Heb.2:16 "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.<

So you are saying Jesus was a sinner?

>>MY: That was why He had to be born of a virgin.<

Hd: He was born of a virgin because the Father was God.<

Pardon? Jesus is also God, equal with the Father and the Spirit

>>MY: No, He didn’t, He came to die, to take away the sin of His people.<

Hd: How? He came to show ALL how to live a sinless life by living it Himself.<

No, He came to die on the cross that our sins might be taken away. If I were to live a sinless life from now on, if that were possible, my sin that I have already committed would drag me down to Hell. We will not be sinless until we leave this body of sin behind and our souls are with Him

>>>>MY: So where did Jesus say that you could do all things through Him?<

Hd: Phil.4:13  "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."<

MY: Harold, let me let you into a secret, Paul wrote Philippians.<

Hd: He wrote to the church at Philipi.<

Ducking and dodging? So, again, “where did Jesus say that you could do all things through Him”?

Martin
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#3 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 4:17 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.3 Message 119699.3 replying to 119699.1 119699.1 ]    
Harold

reply to # 119312.301

>>MY: But even were it a parable, would Jesus have described a scenario that was not possible?<

Hd: Well, He did. Nobody,anywhere, even hints at being able to communicate between hell and heaven.   Nobody, anywhere, even hints that Abrahams bosum is big enough for everyone to fit into. Nobody,  anywhere, even hints that a drop of water on the tip of a finger will sooth a burning body. THINK.<

Nobody, except for Jesus, has ever been in the position to be able to say. Yes, there is figurative language there but that does not invalidate the point.

>>MY: Really, how do they know that? Are you accusing Jesus of lying?<

Hd: No. You are. He is simply telling a story with a punch line that you choose to ignore and blame others for  it. He plainly states the reason for that story. Have you ever thought of it? Luke 16:29  "Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30  And he  said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31  And he said  unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from  the dead. <

I don’t ignore the punch line, I’m just saying that, even when He spoke in parables, Jesus used real situations, possible situations, to help His disciples understand. Therefore what He describes about the rich man and Lazarus must be descriptive of the state of the soul after death.

>>MY: Their bodies are dead but their souls return to God.<

Hd: I told you that was all I was going to say about that.  As long as you hang onto that lie, we can never get  together.<

The Bible clearly teaches, here and elsewhere, that the soul leaves the body at the death of the body. Until you accept that, your understanding of the Bible will be distorted.

Martin

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#4 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 4:18 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  All      [Msg # 119699.4 Message 119699.4 replying to 119699.1 119699.1 ]    
Tom
reply to # 119312.308

Tm: This is to be expected when The remnant church bases all its anathemas on one commandment.<

MY: I think you’d better explain that one to me.<

Tm: They say all others are damned that don't keep the sabbath.<

OK, sorry I was being a bit slow. But at least their damnation doesn’t last for ever.

Martin
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#5 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 8:25 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  Martin Y      [Msg # 119699.5 Message 119699.5 replying to 119699.1 119699.1 ]    

>>"Blessed [are those] whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed [is the] man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."” (Romans 4:1-8 NKJV)>>

When you read the rest of that chapter and '' understand'' it, get back to me.

>>They didn’t what?>>

You really don't read anythingh I post, do you?
""" to finish the  transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in  everlasting righteousness, """

Again, they didn't.

Harold.

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#6 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 8:29 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  Martin Y      [Msg # 119699.6 Message 119699.6 replying to 119699.2 119699.2 ]    

>>So you are saying Jesus was a sinner?>>

No I'm not.  I  am saying that Jesus had OUR sinful nature, but He did not sin, proving that we can, too.

>>Ducking and dodging? So, again, “where did Jesus say that you could do all things through Him”?>>

Look, if you don't want to believe your own Bible, why ask me?
2 Tim.3:16  "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

That says, ""ALL""..  Not just the parts you want.

Harold.

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#7 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 8:33 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  Martin Y      [Msg # 119699.7 Message 119699.7 replying to 119699.4 119699.4 ]    

>>Tm: They say all others are damned that don't keep the sabbath.<>>

I am sorry you don't believe your own Bible.
1 John 3:4  "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
Romans 6:23  "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Now. You can take those as written or try to twist them to your liking. You can't change them, though. Or maybe you are forgetting that the fourth commandment is just as revelant as the other nine.

Harold.

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#8 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 8:41 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  Martin Y      [Msg # 119699.8 Message 119699.8 replying to 119699.3 119699.3 ]    

>>Nobody, except for Jesus, has ever been in the position to be able to say. Yes, there is figurative language there but that does not invalidate the point.

Matthew 13:10  "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11  He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12  For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13  Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14  And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15  For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16  But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17  For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. ?

Mark 4:11  "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables"

Do you understand any of this?  If it is still over your head I can try to do it by smaller words.

Harold.

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#9 of 336

     Posted Sep-20 12:55 PM   
lrschrs
 
From  lrschrs  Posts 12130  Last Nov-24
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.9 Message 119699.9 replying to 119699.5 119699.5 ]    

In Daniel 9:24 the sin thigns are done by Christ, not some 'they' all within the 7th 7, that is, during the time between His conception and the destruction fo Jerusalem. This passage is a prime example of exact FUFILLED prophecy. All happend just as Daniel wrote down well before it happened.

1. to finish the transgession, that is, to conclude the era of Jewish rejection of Christ, Matthew 23:35-36.

2, To make an end of sin and its effect by means of being sacrificed, cut off, in the middle of the tiem [about 3- or 33=. The cross makes an end of sin definign us, the law of sin and death is done away wuith in the cross, Romans 8:1-4.

3, to bring in everlasting righteousness, His own shall never perish, thy HAVE eternal life. John 6:35, 1 John 5:9-11.

4. to make reconciliation for iniquity, we are reconciled by His blood, 2 Cor. 5:17-21.

5. to complete vision and prophecy by the completion of the all sufficient scripture, 2 Tim 3:16-17.

6. and so to reign in heaven as the true anointed king and Lord, no longer in the copies on earth, but in the true heavenly sanctuary in glory, Heb. 9:6-15.

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#10 of 336

     Posted Sep-21 9:12 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  lrschrs      [Msg # 119699.10 Message 119699.10 replying to 119699.9 119699.9 ]    

>>1. to finish the transgession, that is, to conclude the era of Jewish rejection of Christ, >>

So you are saying that Jews don't sin?

>>2, To make an end of sin >>

Have they?

>>3, to bring in everlasting righteousness, >>

So they did?

>>4. to make reconciliation for iniquity,>>

How did they do that?

>>5. to complete vision and prophecy >>

what vision and what prophecy?

>> and so to reign in heaven as the true anointed king and Lord,>>

Jews?

I can plainly see that you have no idea what you are talking about.  when you learn to read your Bible, get back to me.

Harold

 

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#11 of 336

     Posted Sep-22 7:46 PM   
lrschrs
 
From  lrschrs  Posts 12130  Last Nov-24
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.11 Message 119699.11 replying to 119699.10 119699.10 ]    

These six thigns are nto said about what Jews did, or about Jews, but about what JESUS CHRIST did in the first advent work.

1. Jesus made an end of the sin or transgrssion of the Jewish church, by removing it from that role in history, both ended as in completed its historical role and ending the idea of a Jewish church existing as the people of God.  Thus He took away their kingdom and gave it to the whole body which is producing its proper fruits.

2. He ended sin's RULE over people by His death ont he cross, thereby aboloshing the law of sina nd death, the curse on us for breaking the law, by obeying it in our place and also dying for our sins. He did not end man's sinning, but ended SIN as what defined His people in the judgment of God.

3. He brought in everlasting life and righteousness, jsut as the bible says, gives eternal life to all His people.

4. He makes reconciliation or reconciles us to God by removing what stood between beleivers and God, the curse of sin,. He does so [in the middle of the time or the last 7, as verse 27 [remember the whole is about what JESuS CHRIST accomplishes, the judgment that makes things empty is HIS work through the armies of Rome. This reconciliation is accomplished by His death and resurrection for His people, we are thus one in Him and with Him, as in Colossians 3:1-4.

5. vision and prophecy cease with the end of the 70th 7, as far as any new revelation from God is concerned, the scripture is all sufficient and all we get. [remeber I have argued that all the N.T. was complete before that date].

6. He sits in heaven, HE JESUS CHRIST, the true Lord, not jews, not men, but He who in His own work is the anointed prophet, priest and King on high, Christ the Lord. Thus in all His work He completes the offices signified by anointing, He fufills them, completes them, shows their true purpose is accomplished.

Again, the passage is NOT about what Jews did or do, they are passiave here, it is Christ who is the acting agent whose work is set forth, set forth as it relates to them it is true, but it is HIS WORK that Daniel is told will be done and tells us will be done.

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#12 of 336

     Posted Sep-23 8:25 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  lrschrs      [Msg # 119699.12 Message 119699.12 replying to 119699.11 119699.11 ]    

>>2. He ended sin's RULE over people by His death ont he cross, thereby aboloshing the law of sina nd death, the curse on us for breaking the law, by obeying it in our place and also dying for our sins. >>

Without any doubt whatsoever, that is the most twisted bit of scripture reading I have ever heard.  You are saying that there is no such thing as sin any more?  That since He died, nobody is going to be lost?  Boy.  Who ever taught you that sure wanted you to go to hell.
Romans 6:1  "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "
Romans 3:31  "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
Romans 6:15  "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

There. I sent three so you couldn't wiggle out.  I am really on edge waiting to see how you get out of these, though.

Harold.

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#13 of 336

     Posted Sep-23 2:42 PM   
lrschrs
 
From  lrschrs  Posts 12130  Last Nov-24
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.13 Message 119699.13 replying to 119699.12 119699.12 ]    

First, your comment makes it very clear you either never read what I wrote or simply are incapable of understanding it. I specificly said JESUS CHRIST has put an end ot the law of sin and death, not the presence but the power to define of sin in the saved person. The noun here is the CURSE that is taken away, it is the cuse OF sin, a modifier of the curse. Thus Christ on the cross ends sin's power to defien men WHO ARE SAVED. Nothing in that statement even suggests any uuniversal salvation.

Romans 6:1-2 was one fo the verses that I used to write what I wrote. How could we who are dead to sin, we whom sin no longer defiens, live in that sin? Christ ended sin in this regard, he made beleivers dead to it. no longer does sin relate to us as what defines us int he justice of Gdo. The question only makes sense if people had perhaps gootten the same false impression you seem to be getting, that free grace will allow for sinning. No, The free gift of salvation is salvation FROM sin and its defining power. In this sense Christ made us 'dead to sin' just as we had been dead in sins before beign saved. See Romans 8:1-4 where he sums up this.

Romns 3:31 agian only makes sense as a question if people would be thinking that Paul meant to void the law. If they did not think this possibly what he meant the question has no meaning. In fact, grace does nto make the law void, but establishes its meanign truly on gospel principles, not any sort of conditionalism or merit mongering trust in having done the law, but shows us the law is a map of the divien character we are called to image in life. Men tend to falsely beleive the law is a way to get saved or stay saved, so they disestablish it from its God ordained role. To establish the law is to shatter this delusion and set it forth as God designed, not as conditions for relating to God, but as a model of how people already fully related to Him will desire to image Him via their lives..

Romans 6:15 continues the point made in 6:1-2 in a somewhat different fashion. [the first basicly relationally set forth, the second basicly in terms of obedience or ethic]. But the whole point is the same.  

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#14 of 336

     Posted Sep-23 4:43 PM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  lrschrs      [Msg # 119699.14 Message 119699.14 replying to 119699.13 119699.13 ]    

>>To establish the law is to shatter this delusion and set it forth as God designed, not as conditions for relating to God, but as a model of how people already fully related to Him will desire to image Him via their lives..>>

Look, no matter how you cut it, read it, post it or believe it, sin IS the transgression of the law. Period. So, if you have no law, you have no sin. The law comes along and, presto, sin.  God's law is eternal. It always has been and always will be. This universe has its rules and those ten are at the bottom of all of them.  Perhaps you believe that keeping God's law us just legalism. Maybe. NOT keeping that law is death.
God gave Adam and Eve one rule.  Obey and live, disobey and die.  There has been no change in those rules.  SATAN is the one telling everybody that they don't have to obey.  Remember?  "You won't surely die." THAT was and still is Satan's one big lie that most preachers are still preaching. I guess we can class you as one of them.

Harold

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#15 of 336

     Posted Sep-24 11:33 AM   
lrschrs
 
From  lrschrs  Posts 12130  Last Nov-24
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.15 Message 119699.15 replying to 119699.14 119699.14 ]    

First, why do you keepo accusing me of holding a view I have over and over rejected? I have said over and over we are to keep ALL the divien law word, every word, not just some of the laws, but all. You reduce law to rules, I don't, I see it as mroe than jsut rules, as rather form or pattern of the divine character sjetched out in varied historical contexts.

Sin is transgression of law, AND disloyalty, breach of relation and love, definance or rebellion, hate of God as God, a lot of thigns. One thing sin is is transfgressing law, but that is not all it is. [claiming sin is only trnasgression fo law is in effect going to be legalism in the end no matter what elese is said of it]. A puppy is a mammal, but that is nto all it is, it is a pet, a gift, a child's favorite companion, and a host of other thigns as well. Because somethign is siad to be one thign, which is true of it, it does not exclude it being many otehrs as well. Restricting sin to 'breach of rules' is going to mean sin is less thn wha tit is in fact in the eyes of one who does this to it.

The law of sin and death, 'obey and live, disobey and die' is finished for us in the death of Christ, who died in our place, see Romans 8:1-4. This law or principle is nto destroyed here, but accomplished for beleivers in Christ who died as the oen who fufilled this consequence of the law for us, He made atonment for sin by His propititation fo God [turned aside His wrath against us] so that His life can be assigned to us to define us before God, 2 Cor. 5:21, Gal. 3:10-14, Romans 3:16. Colossians 3:1-4. We died to sin in His death so we are made alive to God in His life power, Romans 6:1-14. FOR US who are in Christ we need not worry here, for Christ has both obeyed and died in our place. The EFFECT of this in and on us will be a new heart that longs to be holy, not just to keep rules, but to be conformed to His image. Obedience becoems somethign very different than rule follwoing, it becoems personal fidelity. It sees rule following as sort if infant crawling, maybe necessary for when one needs to get around with poor feet [ aless than fiathful heart[ and always mapping the places we shoudl go in the room. But it also tells us to walk and not crawl, to live a full life of fidelity acting in concord with our new creation, in fact, even to as it were fly from worldly models of life to a better holiness, Isaiah 40:31.

"Work and walk the law demands / but gives us neither feet nor hands,

"The gospel speaks of better thigns / it bids us fly and gives us wings"

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#16 of 336

     Posted Sep-25 8:08 AM   
Harold
 
From  Harold  Posts 10547  Last Nov-24
To  lrschrs      [Msg # 119699.16 Message 119699.16 replying to 119699.15 119699.15 ]    

I read all that you say, and what you say is somewhat all right. What I don't understand is that you think that Jesus did away with the law, and that we are no longer to obey God. Does this mean that we can kill, steal, commit adultery, lie and cheat???  I know that you are firmly against keeping the one and only law of God that states who He is. That is the fourth commandment.  So, if you decide not to obey God and keep His Sabbath, who are you going to anwer to?  Not me.  It is not my sabbath, it is not your sabbath, it is not a Jewish sabbath, it is GOD'S Sabbath.  that is what a lot of people miss.

Harold.

Obedience without love is as impossible as it is worthless.
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#17 of 336

     Posted Sep-26 3:58 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.17 Message 119699.17 replying to 119699.5 119699.5 ]    
Harold

>>MY: the sinners are righteous,<

Hd: That makes no sense at all and won't get a response but this one.<

You don’t understand a basic, critical point of the Gospel?

Hd: "Blessed [are those] whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed [is the]  man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."” (Romans 4:1-8 NKJV)

When you read the rest of that chapter and '' understand'' it, get back to me.<

So what does that mean? What are the sinners sins covered by? Why does God not impute or assign his sin to the sinner.

>>MY: They didn’t what?<

Hd: You really don't read anythingh I post, do you?

""" to finish the  transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to  bring in  everlasting righteousness, """

Again, they didn't.<

Yes I read it, unlike others, I just didn’t understand it

Martin

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#18 of 336

     Posted Sep-26 3:59 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.18 Message 119699.18 replying to 119699.6 119699.6 ]    
Harold

>>MY: So you are saying Jesus was a sinner?<

Hd: No I'm not.  I  am saying that Jesus had OUR sinful nature, but He did not sin, proving that we can, too.<

It’s not quite as simple as that. Our sinful nature, our total depravity it is called elsewhere, causes everything we do to be unacceptable to God. Every good deed the natural man does is infected with sin and cannot be accepted by God. Hence, if Jesus had also had our sinful nature He would have been unable to save us

>>MY: Ducking and dodging? So, again, “where did Jesus say that you could do all things through Him”?<

Hd: Look, if you don't want to believe your own Bible, why ask me? 2 Tim.3:16  "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for  correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished  unto all good works."

That says, ""ALL""..  Not just the parts you want.<

So what are you saying there? Are you saying that the whole of Scripture is Jesus’ words?

Martin
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#19 of 336

     Posted Sep-26 4:01 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.19 Message 119699.19 replying to 119699.7 119699.7 ]    
Harold

>>Tm: They say all others are damned that don't keep the sabbath.<

Hd: I am sorry you don't believe your own Bible. 1 John 3:4  "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Romans 6:23  "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our  Lord." Now. You can take those as written or try to twist them to your liking. You can't change them, though. Or  maybe you are forgetting that the fourth commandment is just as revelant as the other nine.<

Not sure if you realized it but you are replying to Tom’s posting to me, however I agree with the sentiment so:

Look at that passage from 1 John you quoted. “for sin is the transgression of the law”, and the Romans passage says “For the wages of sin is death”. Thus we get, transgression of the law results in death. This is, I believe your basis for saying that the sabbath must be kept by Christians today. But Paul, earlier in the chapter has said:

“For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.” (Romans 6:14 NKJV)

For the Christian the rules have changed, he has died to sin, he does not live under the law but under grace. So those rules of the law have given place to grace, obedience to the law is replaced by love. Unjustified anger is to be avoided, much harder than the law; love for God has replaced the rules of the first table. The point of the sabbath was that Man needed a day of rest, our love for our fellows should ensure we do not deprive them of rest, and a time for worship is of love rather than duty.

Martin
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#20 of 336

     Posted Sep-26 4:02 AM   
Martin Y
 
From  Martin Y  Posts 2280  Last Nov-16
To  Harold      [Msg # 119699.20 Message 119699.20 replying to 119699.8 119699.8 ]    
Harold

>Do you understand any of this?  If it is still over your head I can try to do it by smaller words.<

So you are saying that because you consider “the rich man and Lazarus” to be a parable it cannot be understood?

In the first place it is not a parable.

In the second, even if it were a parable, Jesus never made up anything and pictured a scenario that was not plausible at a human level. Women lost their coins, men went out to sow, why should we think that the events depicted in the rich man and Lazarus are not accurate pictures of Heaven?

Martin
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