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#1 of 14 Posted Nov-6 8:10 AM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To All [Msg # 197559.1 ]

Time has an interesting article on the high price of cheap food here.

What do you think?

Edited Nov-6 by Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a

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#2 of 14 Posted Nov-6 11:24 AM

From mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 Posts 1899 Last Nov-24
To Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a [Msg # 197559.2 197559.1 ]

That was quite an interesting article. And unfortunately IMO the truth. You can't keep thowing chemicals, inorganic fertilizer and other crap into the soil and water and expect everything to be rosey forever. All that stuff has to go somewhere and that somewhere is the water supply.

As you know, I keep my chickens in a coup. I let a few of my older hens out
during the summer to run around. We also have a chicken tractor that I keep some in and move that around the yard so that the soil gets aerated and fertilzed. Naturally. I have never like the idea of keeping them in little cages (or any animal for that matter) and forced them to lay eggs or get fat for slaughter. Its just not right.

I do like the last phrase in the piece "if you don't take care of your land, it can't take care of you." Its very true.

Molly

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The Earth Laughs with Flowers - Emerson

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#3 of 14 Posted Nov-6 11:44 AM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 [Msg # 197559.3 197559.2 ]

It is unfortunately the truth, but a truth that too many people aren't interested in hearing. Cheap food is a powerful lure.

There are some bright spots, however. There are people who are now eating locally grown food and who understand the importance of organically grown, or grown with minimal use of pesticides. And there are thousands of people who are limiting their consumption of meat, whether organically or big ag produced.

Another bright spot is the number of farmers who have found that going back to the "old fashioned way" of rotating crops and pasturing animals works and works well. While they may (not always) lose some in production compared to those who use a lot of chemicals, they don't have the production cost associated with the chemicals, so are able to make a profit anyway.

I had to chuckle when I read a USDA research report on it a few months ago. What did they think, that our forefathers were stupid? They understood the value of crop rotation and diversity, making enough to feed their families and to sell without even having the benefit of scientific input.

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#4 of 14 Posted Nov-6 11:58 AM

From mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 Posts 1899 Last Nov-24
To Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a [Msg # 197559.4 197559.3 ]

Thats it exactly Daryl. Crop rotation, limiting the use of pesticides and other chemicals the whole shebang. Our forefathers weren't stupid. Sometimes the old ways are the best way.

I don't use anything on my garden except good old compost and manure. I produce more than what I need and give quite a bit away. I really should put up a stand next year and let the kids sell the excess. Didn't get around to it this year.

We have been trying to decide if we want to raise a couple of pigs to butcher. We have the room and everything to do it, its just getting around to it and making sure they don't become pets like my chickens did. Thats the hard part. We've also been thinking about getting a couple of cows in the spring and expanding the garden (again).

I did get an exciting visit here a couple of weeks ago. A restaurant in Seattle is interested in my peppers. They offered to buy all that I grow, so I'm seriously thinking about it. They love the idea that they are heirloom and organic and are willing to drive here to get them fresh so I don't have to worry about shipping etc. Its giving me something to think about this winter. If I want to get into that or not.

Molly

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#5 of 14 Posted Nov-6 12:24 PM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 [Msg # 197559.5 197559.4 ]

Molly,

Linda D used to sell to restaurants, so she can advise you about the joys and pitfalls of that. I know that there are several organic growers (certified and not) here that sell almost everything they can grow to the restaurants. It's a steady income for them, though you also have to have a fairly steady supply if you're the only one. Still, if they came to you, it's worth considering. Surely they know that you're not a "commercial" grower yet.

Pigs can be pretty mean, so if you don't get an adorable piglet, it may not matter much. Or you can do what some friends did. They couldn't butcher their lambs, and neither could some friends of theirs butcher their goat kids. They ended up trading.

A nice Jersey cow or a milk goat might be fun. Molly McG and Rika both raised goats. I don't remember whether Molly McG had a milk cow. I like goats and cows both, but since we don't have kids, and I no longer make cheese, I don't want any.

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#6 of 14 Posted Nov-6 12:39 PM

From mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 Posts 1899 Last Nov-24
To Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a [Msg # 197559.6 197559.5 ]

My SIL has goats. They multiply worse than rabbits! <ggg> She had over 200 at one time but now her herd has whittled down to about 25. She sells some to the hispanics and over the years did milk them. But its a lot of hard work having the milk tests etc. She swears she'll never again go the milking route.

Molly

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#7 of 14 Posted Nov-6 12:51 PM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 [Msg # 197559.7 197559.6 ]

Certainly, on a commercial scale, it's a nightmare. One family goat isn't much of a problem, as long as you have a good fence and sell the kid/s as soon as they're ready to go. Most does are easy to handle, easy to milk, and produce just enough milk for a family. A herd is a horror.

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#8 of 14 Posted Nov-6 2:20 PM

From LindaHD Posts 627 Last Nov-24
To mjgallaway/WA St/Zone 6 [Msg # 197559.8 197559.4 ]

Molly: I'd say go for it! Peppers are relatively easy to grow and hold well. I grew heirloom tomatoes and haricot verts style green beans. I could have sold all the beans that I could have grown, but the labor involved was just too much. I was getting $3 a lb for those beans,but I had to pick them, sort them, place them all stem end to one side and tips to the other (ever see how they are packaged in the store?). Anyway, after working all day doing this I ended up with $45 for the beans. I was also consulting at that time with a good hourly fee and that was less than 1/2 hour of consulting work. I decided that it was too much work to do that. But, I was willing to continue to grow heirloom tomatoes but at the time they weren't so popular. Today, however, I probably could sell all that I wanted to grow. In addition, there is a much bigger neighborhood than there was back then. Now the restaurants advertise organically grown or locally produced, etc. Back then (8-10 years ago) it wasn't THE thing to do. You know, I think I started a trend around here!

Peppers, because they are so easy to produce, would be something good to get into. Did you get an estimate of how much they would pay for them? That's something you need to calculate. Look at all the inputs and figure out just what would be fair. Sometimes they want to get everything for nothing. Do some calculating, call around to see what other organically grown peppers are selling for and determine if you want to do it. And remember, one restaurant wanting to take all you grow is not something I would plant 1/4 acre for. But there may be other outlets as well. I had some really interested owners, but when it came to the chef, he never showed up to check out what I had and never bought from me. Another time I had someone who was really interested in my heirloom tomatoes. When I stopped by, he took a total of 2 -- that's just 2 tomatoes! Ugh. Not worth the drive into town. But another restaurant was a regular and was always willing to buy local produce. I still see him at the Farmer's Market and he still asks if I'm still growing those tomatoes.

Restaurants are funny. Some are really wanting to get produce and everything locally or close to local while others only want to pick up an order form and order from the big supplier and don't care where or how it's grown. They just want it when they want it.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

As for the pigs -- I had too many pet pigs as a kid. None here for the freezer. We also have a neighbor who raises Shetland sheep for their wool. They shear the wool, get it processed and some spun and sell that. But they couldn't eat the lambs. They have quite a flock now.

Linda

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#9 of 14 Posted Nov-6 7:59 PM

From Len Goran Posts 985 Last 1:05 AM
To Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a [Msg # 197559.9 197559.5 ]

>They couldn't butcher their lambs,<

Daryl, just this afternoon I watched an American Heartlands where a sheep farmer gets rid of his and others leaf spurge with the lambs--apparently they love this invader to American soil! Regards, Len

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#10 of 14 Posted Nov-7 6:57 AM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To Len Goran [Msg # 197559.10 197559.9 ]

One good thing about both sheep and goats is that they eat almost anything. Of course, that's also their drawback. They also eat shrubs.

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#11 of 14 Posted Nov-7 8:02 AM

From Len Goran Posts 985 Last 1:05 AM
To Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a [Msg # 197559.11 197559.10 ]

>they eat almost anything.<

Daryl, well I hadn't heard of this creeping spurge--it actually poisons the grasslands according to America's Heartlands so this sheep owner brings his flock over to the cattle ranches where they eat the spurge and then the grass can grow again. Regards, Len

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#12 of 14 Posted Nov-7 10:39 AM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To Len Goran [Msg # 197559.12 197559.11 ]

Spurges are very difficult to control because they have waxy leaves and are usually flat on the ground. They also have a milky sap that's irritating, and can do quite a bit of eye damage. They're a pain in the patoot in my garden.

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#13 of 14 Posted Nov-7 4:10 PM

From Carol D./N CA zone 9 Posts 651 Last Nov-22
To Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a [Msg # 197559.13 197559.12 ]

Is it the Spotted Spurge you have? That one's a real nuisance and if I don't get them pulled out in time they drop thousands of tiny seeds that then sprout the next year. It grows in summer when the weather gets hot.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/WEEDS/spotted_spurge.html

Carol

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#14 of 14 Posted Nov-7 5:21 PM

From Daryl/Ga/Zone 7a Posts 13676 Last Nov-24
To Carol D./N CA zone 9 [Msg # 197559.14 197559.13 ]

That's the one. I try to keep on top of it, but the old adage "one year's seeds equals 7 year's weeds" seems to apply. It got away from me during the years that my mother was ill, so it takes a lot of effort now.

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