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News & Events

Nobel "Peace" Prize

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#1 of 33

     Posted Oct-9 5:52 PM   
David Geoffrey Watkins
 
From  David Geoffrey Watkins  Posts 2278  Last 6:33 AM
To  All      [Msg # 196687.1 ]    

I've always regarded the Nobel Peace Prize as being a bit "iffey" - well, they still manufactured explosives, didn't they ?

But those that were awarded it had at least appeared to have done something..

The latest award renders the whole award open to question and, in my opinion, it is now completely without credence.

Dave

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#2 of 33

     Posted Oct-9 8:25 PM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  David Geoffrey Watkins      [Msg # 196687.2 Message 196687.2 replying to 196687.1 196687.1 ]    
I suspect that millions of people agree with you, Dave. 


...Betty
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#3 of 33

     Posted Oct-10 12:48 AM   
elandandoug
 
From  elandandoug  Posts 18  Last Nov-24
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.3 Message 196687.3 replying to 196687.2 196687.2 ]    
But, Betty, might many more millions disagree with Dave?  Just curious.

And if the award to Obama makes the Prize lose credence in David's eyes, what of some of the other winners that came before: just as a for instance, Kissinger.

Ciao,

Doug



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#4 of 33

     Posted Oct-10 10:20 AM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  elandandoug      [Msg # 196687.4 Message 196687.4 replying to 196687.3 196687.3 ]    
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, as always.  I just cannot see that Obama has accomplished anything other than making speeches, and this award usually goes to someone who has accomplished something
...Betty
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#5 of 33

     Posted Oct-10 11:17 AM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 190  Last Nov-24
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.5 Message 196687.5 replying to 196687.4 196687.4 ]    
I suspect that what the President has accomplished is to send the message to the world that we are actively pursuing peaceful solutions to world conflicts, but that we also have military solutions ready should talking through the problems fail.


KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#6 of 33

     Posted Oct-10 11:34 AM   
Suzie
 
From  Suzie  Posts 84  Last Nov-23
To  David Geoffrey Watkins      [Msg # 196687.6 Message 196687.6 replying to 196687.1 196687.1 ]    
Say "Hey" Dave, you have my vote...
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#7 of 33

     Posted Oct-10 9:48 PM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 196687.7 Message 196687.7 replying to 196687.5 196687.5 ]    
And then there are the more cynical folks who think this prize was an attempt to influence his decisions in military matters.  I'm not sure I agree with them, though.  Their decision was made in February, and these big decisions have come up recently.


...Betty
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#8 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 6:12 AM   
David Geoffrey Watkins
 
From  David Geoffrey Watkins  Posts 2278  Last 6:33 AM
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.8 Message 196687.8 replying to 196687.7 196687.7 ]    

Betty

It is reported in the UK press today that ther Netherlands is pulling their troops out of Afghanistan within a few months and that Canada will follow within two years.

What's the betting that it will finish up with the UK and the US being the only ones left there?

And I'm not so sure that we will win either.

In my opinion setting up fortresses and sortieing out isn't the way. What is really needed is for people as individuals or in small groups getting in with the indigenous people at grass-roots. It can, and has been, done before.

Dave

 

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#9 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 11:19 AM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 190  Last Nov-24
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.9 Message 196687.9 replying to 196687.7 196687.7 ]    
This editorial in the Saint Louis Post-Dispatch suggests the prize is both an award for advances already made and a carrot to encourage continued progress:

Former Norwegian Prime Minister Thorbjorn Jagland, chair of the five-member committee that considered nominations that closed 11 days after Mr. Obama's inauguration, explained that the prize sometimes is awarded as a kind of carrot.

"The committee wants to not only endorse but contribute to enhancing that kind of international policy and attitude which [Obama] stands for," said Mr. Jagland said at a Friday news conference.
.
.
.
He may have clinched the Nobel in Prague in April when he said the challenges facing the world "demand that we listen to one another and work together; that we focus on our common interests, not on occasional differences; and that we reaffirm our shared values, which are stronger than any force that could drive us apart. That is the work that we must carry on."

The Prague speech focused on controlling nuclear proliferation. His speech in Cairo focused on repairing U.S. relations with the Islamic world. He has sought to make the United States a leader in addressing global climate change.

Sadly, there is far more consensus in Europe on these critical global issues than there is in the United States. Among European nations, Norway's politics are the most consensus-driven; it is no surprise that the five Norwegian politicians on the Peace Prize committee rewarded Mr. Obama's repudiation of the unilateralist policies of his predecessor.

That an American president — any American president — would win the Nobel Peace Prize should be cause for celebration at home. Tragically, our nation is now so polarized that many Americans — including some who should know better — are whining about it. Republican National Chairman Michael Steele said, "It is unfortunate that the president's star power has outshined tireless advocates who have made real achievements working towards peace and human rights."


Was the decision actually made in February, or is that just when nominations closed?


KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#10 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 5:49 PM   
David Geoffrey Watkins
 
From  David Geoffrey Watkins  Posts 2278  Last 6:33 AM
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 196687.10 Message 196687.10 replying to 196687.9 196687.9 ]    

Amongst the questions cynically being asked here are:

1. Who nominated him ?

2. How much were they paid ?

Consensus is that it is time for the Swedes to discontinue these awards as they have now completly lost credence.

Dave

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#11 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 6:03 PM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  David Geoffrey Watkins      [Msg # 196687.11 Message 196687.11 replying to 196687.8 196687.8 ]    
Your plan sounds good to me!

Where, to your knowledge, was it done before?  I'm sure it's part of British military history (which you know so well) but I don't remember it.  Help.

I've grown very weary of our soldiers being sent to wars all over the globe.  Maybe I just don't understand the reasons, though.  I'm certainly not the sort to get out and protest a war - but I do have opinions.
...Betty
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#12 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 6:06 PM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 196687.12 Message 196687.12 replying to 196687.9 196687.9 ]    
I truly don't know the date of their decision, but I've seen the February date in print (or on my screen) several times in the past couple of days.

Your article sounded to me as if Obama were given the prize because he is not George W. Bush.  <sigh>


...Betty
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#13 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 6:07 PM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  David Geoffrey Watkins      [Msg # 196687.13 Message 196687.13 replying to 196687.10 196687.10 ]    
Good questions, Dave.  And they deserve to be answered.  If you find answers, you WILL share them here, won't you?
...Betty
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#14 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 6:52 PM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 190  Last Nov-24
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.14 Message 196687.14 replying to 196687.12 196687.12 ]    
I've seen the February date in print

I suppose there are sources that like to quote the early date in order to ridicule the award. This source, with reporters in Oslo, says it was decided on Monday, 5 October. This nation's mayors seem supportive, as do John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The President does seem to be better liked in the rest of the world than he is here. Perhaps it is partly due to his recognition that while we may be the BEST country in the world, we are not the ONLY one. Confidence is one thing, but our previous downright insistence that our way is the ONLY way is why so many people overseas look down on Americans.



KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#15 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 6:56 PM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 190  Last Nov-24
To  David Geoffrey Watkins      [Msg # 196687.15 Message 196687.15 replying to 196687.8 196687.8 ]    
In my opinion setting up fortresses and sortieing out isn't the way. What is really needed is for people as individuals or in small groups getting in with the indigenous people at grass-roots. It can, and has been, done before.

And yet there are plenty of people in the US who immediately bad-mouth any idea that we might actually meet with the leaders of other countries and TALK with them. Bombs and fortresses ought to be our last resort, not our first one.



KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#16 of 33

     Posted Oct-11 9:48 PM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 196687.16 Message 196687.16 replying to 196687.14 196687.14 ]    
I think most of us are pleased that he has the award...but just think it came too soon.  And I prefer to take your date.  It makes it sound better, doesn't it?  February made it sound a bit ridiculous, and probably brought on a lot of the criticism the award has received.  The biggest problem is that the award itself seems to be down-graded but this a several other recent winners. 

All I know is what I read in the papers and see on TV, though.
...Betty
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#17 of 33

     Posted Oct-12 1:06 AM   
elandandoug
 
From  elandandoug  Posts 18  Last Nov-24
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.17 Message 196687.17 replying to 196687.4 196687.4 ]    
I agree with you that everyone is entitled to their opinion.  As an aside, I hadn't realised that I might have expressed an opinion about people agreeing or disagreeing with Geoff.

Anyway, what prompted my post to you was that your comment of "many millions agreeing with Geoff" did not give me any sense of whether you thought that a majority agreed with Geoff or a minority--and I was, am, curious as to your view on that matter.

My reference to Kissinger was, en passant to Geoff, that I wondered why Kissinger's winning of the Peace Prize had not prompted a loss of credence for him in the award.

I must admit that Alistair Horne's recent book, Kissinger 1973, The Crucial Year, has improved my view of HK as a statesman, and surprisingly to myself, improved my view of Nixon as a president with a keen eye to foreign policy.

Ciao,

Doug



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#18 of 33

     Posted Oct-12 10:19 AM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  elandandoug      [Msg # 196687.18 Message 196687.18 replying to 196687.17 196687.17 ]    
If millions didn't agree with each side of these issues, there would not be a debate, would there?  I'm sure many feel that Mr. Obama deserved this honor and it was only right that he have it.  I'm still among the 'wait and see' crowd, wanting to see some of the results of his speaking and dreaming before declaring him winner of an award that used to be one of the world's most prestigious.  So far (and he hasn't had a long time yet) I mostly see that he is a good speaker and that he wants a lot of nice things - but they are not falling into his lap as easily as many thought they would.  I agree with some of the things he wants, and disagree with many other things.  I've not seen much yet in the way of accomplishments other than public speaking.


...Betty
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#19 of 33

     Posted Oct-12 10:35 AM   
elandandoug
 
From  elandandoug  Posts 18  Last Nov-24
To  Betty Clay      [Msg # 196687.19 Message 196687.19 replying to 196687.18 196687.18 ]    
I appreciate your reply, Betty, wrt Obama.

As for the prestige of the award: can you put your finger on when its prestige began to be diminished?

Ciao,

Doug




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#20 of 33

     Posted Oct-12 10:39 AM   
Betty Clay
 
From  Betty Clay  Posts 142  Last Nov-24
To  elandandoug      [Msg # 196687.20 Message 196687.20 replying to 196687.19 196687.19 ]    
No, Doug.  I am not that scholarly.  I just know that quite a few of the recent recipients have not inspired much awe, nor have I felt that their contributions were so great.  Maybe I just know more about them, or expect more of recipients than I did when I was younger.


...Betty
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