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Health and Fitness

Healthcare Bill

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#1 of 105

     Posted Oct-31 9:54 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  All      [Msg # 190428.1 ]    

All,

All 1990 pages

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Bob

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#2 of 105

     Posted Oct-31 11:13 AM   
Dot Welch
 
From  Dot Welch  Posts 5158  Last Nov-24
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.2 Message 190428.2 replying to 190428.1 190428.1 ]    
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Saved!  Thanks.  I can't guarantee I'll read it, but at least I have it.

Dot

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain.

  --Anonymous

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#3 of 105

     Posted Oct-31 4:24 PM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  Dot Welch      [Msg # 190428.3 Message 190428.3 replying to 190428.2 190428.2 ]    

Dot,

I skimmed a lot of it.  I must say there are parts of the bill I think are great!  More training for doctors and nurses.  Healthy living education.  Consolidation of medical care under one head. 

My two biggest fears are higher taxes/fees and intrusion into my private life.

Bob

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#4 of 105

     Posted Oct-31 5:17 PM   
ccarlandict
 
From  ccarlandict  Posts 537  Last 9:57 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.4 Message 190428.4 replying to 190428.3 190428.3 ]    
> My two biggest fears are higher taxes/fees and intrusion into my private life.<

You have a private life?<G> 

Seriously, it looks to me like that private life is just as secure as it is at present without health reform legislation...
 
'7 SEC. 1653. COMPLIANCE WITH HIPAA PRIVACY AND SECU-
8    RITY STANDARDS.
9    The provisions of sections 262(a) and 264 of the
10 Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of
11 1996 (and standards promulgated pursuant to such sec-
12    tions) and the Privacy Act of 1974 shall apply with respect
13 to the provisions of this subtitle and amendments made
14    by this subtitle.'

On cost, the preliminary CBO estimate is a reduction in federal budget deficits of 10 billion a year for the next ten years which should be modestly beneficial for our taxes.

"According to CBO and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3962 would result in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $104 billion over the 2010–2019 period. In the subsequent decade, the collective effect of its provisions would probably be slight reductions in federal budget deficits. Those estimates are all subject to substantial uncertainty."






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#5 of 105

     Posted Oct-31 5:39 PM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  ccarlandict      [Msg # 190428.5 Message 190428.5 replying to 190428.4 190428.4 ]    

Somehow I don't feel any more comfortable!  I distrust Congress and those within walking distance.

Bob 

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#6 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 12:08 AM   
Dot Welch
 
From  Dot Welch  Posts 5158  Last Nov-24
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.6 Message 190428.6 replying to 190428.3 190428.3 ]    
My two biggest fears are higher taxes/fees and intrusion into my private life.

Those might be legitimate fears.  My dismay is that it still leaves out a significant segment of the population.  We need a healthcare system that doesn't leave out anyone.

Dot

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain.

  --Anonymous

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#7 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 6:56 AM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 1082  Last 5:35 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.7 Message 190428.7 replying to 190428.5 190428.5 ]    
  I distrust Congress and those within walking distance.<<

Not as much as I distrust insurance companies
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#8 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 8:11 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  Dot Welch      [Msg # 190428.8 Message 190428.8 replying to 190428.6 190428.6 ]    

My two biggest fears are higher taxes/fees and intrusion into my private life.

Those might be legitimate fears.  My dismay is that it still leaves out a significant segment of the population.  We need a healthcare system that doesn't leave out anyone.

Dot,

Who's left out of our healthcare system?  Many are left out of the insurance system.

Bob

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#9 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 8:14 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  dave      [Msg # 190428.9 Message 190428.9 replying to 190428.7 190428.7 ]    

The insurance industry makes about 2% profit.  How they make their money is using the premiums for other investments.  I'm not sure why you cannot cross state lines on insurance?  My insurance co is one of the best in the world, USAA but it is not for healthcare.

Bob

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#10 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 8:36 AM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 1082  Last 5:35 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.10 Message 190428.10 replying to 190428.9 190428.9 ]    
  My insurance co is one of the best in the world, USAA but it is not for healthcare.<<

Bob-
I have a dim view of the insurance industry in general. However, they don't apply so much to mutual insurance companies such as USAA. I do almost as much business with them as I can (I do most of my banking with a local CU, but I've often considered dropping them for USAA. Only the existence of a physical location convenient to me keeps me at the CU.

But since with such mutual insurers, the policy holders are also the owners of the company, the motivation to deny legitimate claims to pad profits isn't such an issue. Nor do their banking businesses take outrageous risks. It's a large financial institution that I have nothing but positive views of.

>> How they make their money is using the premiums for other investments. <<

That and charging premiums that should-slightly-exceed the anticipated payouts. If they only made a profit by investing premiums prior to payouts, a lot of insurers would have gone bell-up last year. Insurers turn a profit even in serious bear markets. They do this by eagerly taking premiums but reluctantly paying claims. AGain,USAA (for example) pays out its profit annually to policy holders. That they have such a profit is because state regulators don't allow them to charge as little as they'd be inclined to-so that other, for-profit, insurers don't leave the state for lack of an opportunity to make money.
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#11 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 10:30 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  dave      [Msg # 190428.11 Message 190428.11 replying to 190428.10 190428.10 ]    

That and charging premiums that should-slightly-exceed the anticipated payouts. If they only made a profit by investing premiums prior to payouts, a lot of insurers would have gone bell-up last year. Insurers turn a profit even in serious bear markets. They do this by eagerly taking premiums but reluctantly paying claims. AGain,USAA (for example) pays out its profit annually to policy holders. That they have such a profit is because state regulators don't allow them to charge as little as they'd be inclined to-so that other, for-profit, insurers don't leave the state for lack of an opportunity to make money.

Dave,

I don't know how insurance works but I do have a idea.  USAA can offer great rates because it limits who it insures.  It started by only insuring military officers but has since expanded.  The rates are very good but only for those who can qualify.

Here's my understanding of insurance.  The insurance company offers a contract to protect from loss.  For this they get a fee.  When the loss occurs - x; the company pays x less deductible.  The problems come in when you start to define who the insurance company offers to; what is x and what is the deductible.  Once you get those defined so both parties understand them, then it is just a matter of numbers.

Changing insurance company to gov't will not change the definition problems.  It will increase all that are offered insurance.  There comes the problem.  This increases the risk which should increase the fees or reduce payouts or both.  The gov't to offset this is trying to make insurance mandatory for all so the pool is filled with less risky people.  This is good for the high risk but poor for the low risk people.

I'm not saying there isn't any abuse in the sytem as it happens by both insured and insurors.  I'd say the biggest problem is in understanding.  I know my first call is to the insurance company to find out if I'm covered or not.  (Normally it is bad news but not always).

Bob 

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#12 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 1:15 PM   
John From Detroit
 
From  John From Detroit  Posts 3027  Last Nov-24
To  All      [Msg # 190428.12 Message 190428.12 replying to 190428.11 190428.11 ]    
One of the things that I kind of wonder about came to light several years ago in the first Chrysler Bailout.. How long ago was that?

One of the outfits that provided bail out money for Chrysler was Michigan's so-called Non-Profit insurance company.. Blue Cross-Blue Shield of Michigan.

I forget the amount of the Loan they made to Chrysler to help 'em out but it was substantial...

The question is: Where did a Non-profit come up with that kind of walking around money?  I mean.. they do have to keep a set minimum funds on hand (set by law I might add) to pay Doctors and hospitals and such... And as a no-profit, I'd expect their "Petty cash" fund to be more or less.. Just that amount.. Yet they loaned Chrysler a very large hunk of cash.

Now.. They justified it by saying that had Chrysler gone down, it would have cost them big time,  Which is true.. I fully agree with that.

BUT WERE DID THE MONEY COME FROM?

(Are they really non-profit if they can make that kind of investment with their surplus funds?)
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#13 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 1:22 PM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 1082  Last 5:35 AM
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.13 Message 190428.13 replying to 190428.11 190428.11 ]    
I don't know how insurance works but I do have a idea.  USAA can offer great rates because it limits who it insures.  It started by only insuring military officers but has since expanded.  The rates are very good but only for those who can qualify.<<

Actually, they started out that way because other insurers wouldn't cover them-they were seen as high risk.

The biggest thing allowing them to offer low rates is not having to make a profit.
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#14 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 2:22 PM   
Dot Welch
 
From  Dot Welch  Posts 5158  Last Nov-24
To  Bob B      [Msg # 190428.14 Message 190428.14 replying to 190428.8 190428.8 ]    
Who's left out of our healthcare system?  Many are left out of the insurance system.

I guess I got my groups a little mixed up, but there are still plenty of people who are left out of the healthcare system simply because they can't afford insurance.  Does the proposed bill close that hole?

Dot

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain.

  --Anonymous

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#15 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 5:17 PM   
Dage Ryk
 
From  Dage Ryk  Posts 383  Last Nov-17
To  John From Detroit      [Msg # 190428.15 Message 190428.15 replying to 190428.12 190428.12 ]    
Not-For-Profit doesn't mean the organization can't _have money, or what you might think of as "extra money," it means that the organization does not pay out any 'profits' to shareholders. NFPs are all either one of two types of legal entity, corporations or trusts - sorry emergency interruption... laterFirst learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak. - Epictetus
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#16 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 5:27 PM   
Jim Grey
 
From  Jim Grey  Posts 5331  Last 6:55 AM
To  Dot Welch      [Msg # 190428.16 Message 190428.16 replying to 190428.14 190428.14 ]    

I guess I got my groups a little mixed up, but there are still plenty of people who are left out of the healthcare system simply because they can't afford insurance.  Does the proposed bill close that hole?

Even homeless drunks and druggies get health care here. Most states have such operations.

http://freemedicalcamps.com/index.php

Persist... Procreate... Prosper... Proliferate  JWG


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#17 of 105

     Posted Nov-1 10:37 PM   
Brownie
 
From  Brownie  Posts 418  Last Nov-24
To  Jim Grey      [Msg # 190428.17 Message 190428.17 replying to 190428.16 190428.16 ]    
Maybe I don't know what we're talkin' about here, but our county has two free dental/medical programs for people who cannot afford to seek paid healthcare.  And it's good...the doctors/dentists are private practicing doctors/dentists five days a week and volunteer another day to do free work for people who need it. 
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#18 of 105

     Posted Nov-2 5:31 AM   
Bob B
 
From  Bob B  Posts 346  Last 9:25 AM
To  Dot Welch      [Msg # 190428.18 Message 190428.18 replying to 190428.14 190428.14 ]    

Who's left out of our healthcare system?  Many are left out of the insurance system.

I guess I got my groups a little mixed up, but there are still plenty of people who are left out of the healthcare system simply because they can't afford insurance.  Does the proposed bill close that hole?

Dot,

I don't know because they keep changing the bills.  The current law allows anyone to walk into a emergency room and get care.  I've heard two numbers one is 4% and the other is 25 million, who are left out.  It seems every time someone says we're going after the rich it ends up costing the middle class.

Bob

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#19 of 105

     Posted Nov-2 6:34 AM   
Jim Grey
 
From  Jim Grey  Posts 5331  Last 6:55 AM
To  Brownie      [Msg # 190428.19 Message 190428.19 replying to 190428.17 190428.17 ]    

Maybe I don't know what we're talkin' about here, but our county has two free dental/medical programs for people who cannot afford to seek paid healthcare.  And it's good...the doctors/dentists are private practicing doctors/dentists five days a week and volunteer another day to do free work for people who need it. 

The link I provided up thread will help people find some of them. "Free" is a loose term in that the service providers tend to collect from Medicaid for the least able to pay.

Setting on the "Client Committee" for the non profit clinic here I get a state wide "Profit Report" for each month.

Persist... Procreate... Prosper... Proliferate  JWG


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#20 of 105

     Posted Nov-2 12:19 PM   
Dage Ryk
 
From  Dage Ryk  Posts 383  Last Nov-17
To  Dot Welch      [Msg # 190428.20 Message 190428.20 replying to 190428.14 190428.14 ]    

>>Who's left out of our healthcare system?  Many are left out of the insurance system.

>I guess I got my groups a little mixed up, but there are still plenty of people who are left out of the healthcare system simply because they can't afford insurance.  Does the proposed bill close that hole?

No, you didn't get your groups mixed up, Dot. The proposed bill only closes the hole for about half of the ~45-49 million folks who don't have access to either non-trauma healthcare or insurance. Contrary to some posters' previous comments, ERs do not have to take all comers. Only ERs at most _publically funded hospitals are legally required to take care of traumatic injuries regardless of ability to pay though even then, the folks treated are 'tagged' with liens by the taxing authorities and subsequent income from wages, pensions, tax refunds, gambling winnings and such can be taken to offset the debt. ERs are not required to care for people who are or were, for example, just on medication for hypertension but who are not quite poor enough to qualify for Medicaid. Unless, of course, they come back to the ER in the midst of having a stroke and are at least semi-paralyzed and drooling at which point they will be whisked into the hospital's expensive, high tech conveyor belt to treatment immediately for fear of a malpractice suit. If you have your stroke quietly at home, you're out of luck and have to wait til you officially lose your, granted miserable, job without benefits, spend down any assets you and anyone else in the household _might have had and _then qualify for Medicaid, depending on the state in which you live to received any treatment. In either case, ... "all for the want of a nail' as the poem goes. In this case, all for want of five minutes of a doctor's time and a BP or bloodtest, we are now paying for the really expensive care and potentially for a rather long time.

Those are the type of cost savings from expanding access and coverage that the CBO does _not include in its calculations.

 

 

First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak. - Epictetus
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