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Consumer News/Issues

SmartMeter

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#1 of 14

     Posted Nov-2 7:50 PM   
Frank
 
From  Frank  Posts 535  Last Nov-24
To  All      [Msg # 17955.1 ]    
  I received a letter today, from PG&E, about the upcoming installation of an upgrade to gas and electric meters allowing them to be read remotely. I also went to their web page to find answers to a few questions which occurred to me after reading this letter, but it didn't help much.  Maybe someone here has studied this program and can answer some of these questions, which are mostly paranoid and cynical.

  1. What will happen to all of the meter readers who will lose their jobs because meter reading is no longer required.

  2. Since PG&E will save money by use of these new meters (at least after they're paid for), can we expect them to lower our bills? (I think I already know the answer to this).

  3. While this isn't discussed on their web site, the new meters will obviously be controlled by the PG&E office, and gas/electricity can be shut off in the event of a heat wave or a brownout. Are there any provisions for notification of consumers so that they can take appropriate steps (i.e., resetting clocks on DVR's/VCRs.computers)?


- Frank
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#2 of 14

     Posted Nov-2 9:31 PM   
4merCL
 
From  4merCL  Posts 4606  Last Nov-24
To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.2 Message 17955.2 replying to 17955.1 17955.1 ]    

>>  I also went to their web page to find answers to a few questions which occurred to me after reading this letter, but it didn't help much.   <<

Google is your friend.

A couple of sites that you might not have browsed should be brought up by

PG&E SmartMeter   and PG&E SmartRate

>>    1. What will happen to all of the meter readers who will lose their jobs because meter reading is no longer required.  <<

Since this meter refitting will take place over several years, it appears, normal attrition may accomplish all of most of the RIF. For the remainder, if any, other non-meter positions may be available.

>>    2. Since PG&E will save money by use of these new meters (at least after they're paid for), can we expect them to lower our bills? (I think I already know the answer to this).  <<

If you see the discussion of the (optional) summer SmartRate plan, the new SmartMeters will generate detailed information that will be shared with participants [such as yourself, if you so choose] to enable them to conserve energy during certain pre-announced expected peak demand period and reap savings on their bills. IOW, they will provide tools to enable you to reduce your own bill.

>>  the new meters will obviously be controlled by the PG&E office, and gas/electricity can be shut off in the event of a heat wave or a brownout. Are there any provisions for notification of consumers so that they can take appropriate steps (i.e., resetting clocks on DVR's/VCRs.computers)?  <<

As I read things, the meters will have a remote reporting function, but NOT a remote controlling function. For those participating in the SmartRate program, they will receive day before notification on days designated as "Smart Days"...and may choose to reduce (on their own) electric consumption during the critical hours and thereby minimize their exposure to surcharge during those periods. Overall rates, outside of the critical hours on Smart Days, would be reduced so that by minimizing surcharge, a net savings would be achieved. So, since there is "day before" notification and the power reductions are made by the consumer, you should be able to mitigate the effect on computers, clocks, etc.

AND, BTW, advance notice is to be given WRT the SmartMeter installation so that computers and other sensitive electronics can be disconnected during the procedure.

Best regards,  4merCL


Edited Nov-2   by  4merCL
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#3 of 14

     Posted Nov-2 11:19 PM   
Frank
 
From  Frank  Posts 535  Last Nov-24
To  4merCL      [Msg # 17955.3 Message 17955.3 replying to 17955.2 17955.2 ]    
>> Google is your friend.

A couple of sites that you might not have browsed should be brought up by

PG&E SmartMeter   and PG&E SmartRate <<


And you might find "pg&e smart meter complaints" helpful. It appears that in several pilot programs the meters were plagued with inaccuracies.

>> Since this meter refitting will take place over several years, it appears, normal attrition may accomplish all of most of the RIF. For the remainder, if any, other non-meter positions may be available. <<

One can only hope.

>> IOW, they will provide tools to enable you to reduce your own bill. <<

  So what you're saying is that PG&E will save a lot of money, but if we want to lower our bills we've got to modify our lifestyles (usually, inconvenience ourselves) to save a little.

>> As I read things, the meters will have a remote reporting function, but NOT a remote controlling function. <<

Try the google search I mentioned earlier - lots of people read things differently.

>> AND, BTW, advance notice is to be given WRT the SmartMeter installation so that computers and other sensitive electronics can be disconnected during the procedure. <<

 To quote from the letter I got from PG&E,:

Here's what you can expect:

     We will knock on your door before the work begins.
     If no one is present, we will leave a note on your door after installation is complete.....


So, since many of us work (they state this installation will be done during regular business hours) the new meters will be installed without our knowledge.



- Frank
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#4 of 14

     Posted Nov-3 4:48 AM   
K. Barthelmess
 
From  K. Barthelmess  Posts 75  Last 4:28 AM
To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.4 Message 17955.4 replying to 17955.1 17955.1 ]    

Frank -

I've been through this with Arizona Public Service, at least for electrical service.

1. I don't know what happened to the meter readers.

2. Your bill will not go down unless you switch to a new service plan; we already had several alternate service plans available with the old meters, so it didn't matter here. Amusingly (sort of), one of the (twenty) itemized charges on our bills is "Meter reading $1.76". It still gets charged every month.

3. Yes, they have the ability to turn power off and on remotely. That allows them to turn on power to a new customer immediately - without sending somebody out two days after the request. They have always had the ability to turn off power to neighborhoods remotely - remember the "rolling blackouts"? Now they could do it on an individual basis. But they're not going to do it without warning any more than they implemented the rolling blackouts without warning. And if they're doing it due to a power supply issue, they'll do it on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis, just as they did before.

The only real change is that one doesn't have to lock up their pit bulls on days when when the meter reader was coming.[g]

Kurt

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#5 of 14

     Posted Nov-3 7:53 AM   
4merCL
 
From  4merCL  Posts 4606  Last Nov-24
To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.5 Message 17955.5 replying to 17955.3 17955.3 ]    

To quote from the FAQs:

How to Prepare for Your Meter Installation

 • Please provide clear and safe access to the meter
 • Keep dogs inside or safely away from the meter
 • Clear any obstruction to the meter
 • Unplug sensitive equipment like computers and televisions
 • Unlock circuit-breaker box
 • Tell others in your household about the upcoming meter installation

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please call us at 1-866-743-0263 if you operate life support or other sensitive medical equipment in your home that PG&E may be unaware of.
  • OpenWhat to Expect When Your Meter is Installed
    PG&E will send you a letter to let you know when the meter(s) at your home or business are scheduled for the upgrade. As long as the meter is accessible, you don’t need to do anything; you will continue to receive the same dependable service you receive today.

    PG&E or our authorized representative (Wellington Energy) will upgrade your gas and electric meters.
  •  
  • >>  So what you're saying is that PG&E will save a lot of money, but if we want to lower our bills we've got to modify our lifestyles (usually, inconvenience ourselves) to save a little.  <<
  •  
  • The Smart Rate plan, as described, involves reducing power consumption between 2 and 7 PM on not more than 15 preannounced days per year. As you have noted, you are at work, presumably for most of that interval, so that turning off some appliances during your absence should not be a major hardship.

  • Best regards,  4merCL

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    #6 of 14

         Posted Nov-3 8:04 AM   
    johnie1940brown
     
    From  johnie1940brown  Posts 25  Last Nov-18
    To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.6 Message 17955.6 replying to 17955.1 17955.1 ]    
    As one who has a large number of PG and E stocks and no longer live in the PG and E service area, I would like to see the bills to increase!

    Can you blame me?
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    #7 of 14

         Posted Nov-3 8:11 AM   
    4merCL
     
    From  4merCL  Posts 4606  Last Nov-24
    To  johnie1940brown      [Msg # 17955.7 Message 17955.7 replying to 17955.6 17955.6 ]    (Unread)

    >>  Can you blame me?  <<

    Pointing fingers of blame at stockholders may not be the point.

    Increased rates might just feed a culture of wasteful overhead and bloated executive compensation.

    The true test of good management is not how it can function by raising prices, but by reducing costs in a prudent way.

    Best regards,  4merCL

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    #8 of 14

         Posted Nov-3 8:39 AM   
    Jon Woolf
     
    From  Jon Woolf  Posts 315  Last Nov-24
    To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.8 Message 17955.8 replying to 17955.3 17955.3 ]    
    Something else to consider: if the Smartmeters can be turned off and on remotely, they can also be turned off and on by a hacker.  The more "centralized" and "efficient" our essential utilities become, the more vulnerable they are to bad guys. 

    If you don't already have a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) for your computer(s), then GET ONE.  A good one.  A UPS has a battery which contains up to 15 minutes of power for a typical desktop PC.  A good one has a small built-in processor and a communication cable with the computer, so that after a power failure the UPS can order the computer to do a safe shutdown before the battery runs down. 

    -- JSW
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    #9 of 14

         Posted Nov-3 11:08 AM   
    Gretchen, EA
     
    From  Gretchen, EA  Posts 1760  Last Nov-24
    To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.9 Message 17955.9 replying to 17955.1 17955.1 ]    
    Did you search for "smart meters" on the Chronicle website (www.sfgate.com)? Around a month ago, they ran an article that said some of the early users of these feel they've been overbilled.
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    #10 of 14

         Posted Nov-6 11:44 PM   
    Howard Eichenwald/sysop
     
    From  Howard Eichenwald/sysop  Posts 938  Last Nov-24
    To  Gretchen, EA      [Msg # 17955.10 Message 17955.10 replying to 17955.9 17955.9 ]    

    > some of the early users of these feel they've been overbilled.

    Most likely the bills are more accurate and less bad manual reading by the meter readers.    This is similar to the electronic scales in the supermarket where the weight is measured to the 1/100th of an ounce.  The extra pennys from the few hundreths of an ounce of whatever is bought add up quickly as opposed to the old scales where the clerk saw the weight and manually figured the price - most likely rounding down the weight to the nearest tenth or quarter ounce for easier computation.  

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    #11 of 14

         Posted Nov-7 11:15 AM   
    Gretchen, EA
     
    From  Gretchen, EA  Posts 1760  Last Nov-24
    To  Howard Eichenwald/sysop      [Msg # 17955.11 Message 17955.11 replying to 17955.10 17955.10 ]    

     some of the early users of these feel they've been overbilled.

    Most likely the bills are more accurate and less bad manual reading by the meter readers. 

    Well, you might think that, until you read about folks who were on vacation and the only appliance turned on was the fridge (and probably a clock or two) -- and the bill was astronomical.

    I dunno ... it's not (yet) MY electric bill, but I'd definitely be wary. I know my habits and my bills are quite low. If I was suddenly billed more than $30/month for electricity, I'd certainly wonder about it.

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    #12 of 14

         Posted Nov-7 7:38 PM   
    STRAT STRINGS
     
    From  STRAT STRINGS  Posts 540  Last Nov-24
    To  Frank      [Msg # 17955.12 Message 17955.12 replying to 17955.1 17955.1 ]    
    my, my, my sounds to me like you're talking about government run healthcare....
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    #13 of 14

         Posted Nov-7 10:41 PM   
    Frank
     
    From  Frank  Posts 535  Last Nov-24
    To  STRAT STRINGS      [Msg # 17955.13 Message 17955.13 replying to 17955.12 17955.12 ]    
    >> my, my, my sounds to me like you're talking about government run healthcare.... <<

    There sure are lots of similarities.


    - Frank
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    #14 of 14

         Posted Nov-10 3:50 PM   
    Gretchen, EA
     
    From  Gretchen, EA  Posts 1760  Last Nov-24
    To  Howard Eichenwald/sysop      [Msg # 17955.14 Message 17955.14 replying to 17955.10 17955.10 ]    

     

    There's now a class action lawsuit starting up over these meters. Here's the story:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/09/BU851AHKGA.DTL

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