Lulu

 "Anti-Choice = Pro female slavery"

mar531

Does anyone else feel like the Unions are sabotaging this countries economy?

No one has gotten or is getting raises, benefits are dwindling,small & large businesses are failing; and yet unions are still demanding more!!!

Where do "they" think the money is coming from?

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In part I am in agreement. However, I want to be real cautious not to turn this into a black and white discussion demonizing the Unions. With that said there are many negatives to address regarding the Unions. Internal deal making from within the ranks is one of them. The International, National and Local's Constitution call it "Collusion with Management".  

Before I go any further let me categorize the Unions very briefly. We have Unions for Private Industry and we have Unions for State, County, and Municipal Employees.  States without such Unionization have in many cases a low moral, lower pay wages, and high turnover rates. Although the same can be said for many States that are Unionized. The concept in protecting workers rights can get trampled on pretty fast. And I can tell you this happens in a State that IS Unionized. The Democratic Governor in charge has already escaped a Grand Jury investigation once but may not be off the hook just yet.

That is one of the many reasons why I stay away from black and white debates regarding Liberals vs Conservative or Democrats vs Republicans discussions. Occasionally I will debate with Sam a.k.a. sbolert, because even when I agree with him, I look for ways to disagree with him just to illustrate the point that there is a big grey area in dealing with our nations economic woes.

I hope I am not boring you or losing you on where I am going with this. So for the sake of simplifying  and sound biting this discussion. I see several categories of failures that are crushing our economy:

The Unions and their failure to support it's membership-both in the Private and Government sector.

Corporate Greed. i.e. CEO's making ridiculous sums of money while their company is doomed for failure.

The Politicians who are bought and paid for, starting from Town Councilman and Women right on up to the Presidency.

How nice it is to be a town councilman in the construction business or some affiliation with that business and having to oversee contract bids. This crap is going on all the time, and we end up being way to busy to dissect it all.

Then of course there is perhaps the biggest entity of them all that very few members talk about and that is The FED. Recently I have  heard one liberal and one conservative on different thread topics talk about some of the problems tied to the FED. Now that's irony !

All of the entities I just described have in one way or another contributed to what we are seeing today. Sort of like a murder on the orient express. Who killed the American economy? You can make a case, that all of the above have a hand in it one way or the other. When Bill Clinton first ran for President, his Democratic opponent Jerry Brown was ridiculed in the press, but now I understand a little better what he was talking about when he railed against Clinton's support for NAFTA.

Jkser1

PS I will try to add more on this later and will try to find the comments that other members made about the FED and banking derivatives, which is yet another problem.

akaiiiof4 - LOL,  You true self comes out,  Norma Rae.  

That was hilarious, wasn't it? 

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It was perdictable.

It is of great concern to me,  that we have a President and a legion of people that have bought into the class war far and the punishment of industry/corporate.  This country at one time was the main producer of the worlds products,  but we have spent the last 40 years restrictinng and regulating industry to death.   Between things like Union, enviromentialst, and government regulation the operational cost make it preventive to set up shop in this country.  All of which puts a consumer nation in a major bind.  If we don't reverse the trend and quit bitting the hand the feed us, we only continue the slide.  

Once again, how many of you have actually *read* Sinclair Lewis's "The Jungle".

Why would some one read the writing of a Socialist/communist? 

That's what big business wants in today's world.  A return to those days.

There are two end to the pendulum! 

Unions are part of the American labor force that can give a balance of power between big business and the common laborer. Many people in the workforce don't know their rights and can lose jobs and benefits simply because they don't know their rights.

A woman becomes pregnant and as time approaches for her delivery, goes on a Medical leave. The labor pains come and during delivery complications arrive extending her medical leave. Time goes by, she heals and returns to work only to find that she doesn't either have a job or can be demoted to a less paying job. She then hires a lawyer who asks for money up front to take her case, she then hires the lawyer. Weeks go by and the lawyer files the motion and the paper work for which she receives another bill which she pays. More weeks go by and the attorney has been in conference with the corporate attorney for which she receives another bill which she pays again but still, no job. Weeks go by when she receives another bill but still no job. She then evaluates her situation, drops the case and then decides to move on. In this case, a union would have helped.

This is however is not typical of all businesses and employees need to really evaluate whether they need a union or not. Under the NLRB Laws, unions are free to promise whatever they want, companies are not. Companies cannot spy on union activity however, what individual members do on their own time is exempt fro NLRB law. Companies cannot threaten their employees with reprieves however rank and file members can do whatever they want on their own time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnVewHEQP00 . You also consider your union dues and initiation fees and understand that these can go to support politicians of whose ideals you may not support or even agree with. You also have to consider the threat of a strike and the consequences that go a long with it. It is not unusual for a union member to have a sick family member with expensive medical bills to cross a picket line only to find out later that the union has fined them with big fines and now is scrutinized by the union and coworkers. Typically there is no sympathy to anyone who crosses a picket line regardless of their situation as a union may demand 100% loyalty. Consider the disappearance of one Jimmy Hoffa.

There are however some unions with clear objectives and goals. the United Brotherhood of Electrical Workers is known for their superior skills in the field of electrical work and their consistent work in training and education of both the trade and safety.

This is America and among one of your rights is the right to organize. It is a very important right. Consider the union, what the message is and the costs and sacrifices that you may have to make. If you feel your company is abusing you and your employees, organize. If your employer seems to be treating you fairly then consider this, no union ever opened a manufacturing facility and hired people and created jobs with great benefits and wages.  

what would be in your meats.

Well if people knew what was in thier hot dog or baloney sandwitch,  they wouldn't eat them would they? .  But back to the Union,  I leard the meaning of capatilism early.  Meaning I found out what the pay was before I took the job,  and than I decide if the degree of work balanced the pay.   Than at any time if I decided one was out of balance, I living in a free country,  had the right to walk,  just the same as the man asking me to do a job had the right to determine it's value.