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Buy,Build,Overclock

Case selection

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#1 of 384

     Posted 4/11/09 10:01 AM   
John Crea /WUGNET
 
From  John Crea /WUGNET  Posts 2184  Last 4/18/09
To  All      [Msg # 164467.1 ]    

Ok, my 2cents worth. If you are going to build a new system, then the BEST choice for a case is going to be a full tower case. Only reason to go with a smaller case is if you are restrained by your environment (ie, no room for a full tower case OR you are one of those folks who tote thier entire machine to lan parties)

I still have and use my PC Power and Cooling full tower ATX case dating back over 10yrs old

So, with full tower cases going for from under $90 to over $300, what is YOUR pick for a full tower case?? Personally, a major factor that would influence me to change to something else would include a removeable motherboard tray, and of course LOTS of drive bays. Lian Li has the PC-a7010 that makes me drool, but it is one of the more expensive cases (but my PC Power and Cooling case was MORE expensive way back when <vbg!!>, but it has served me well over many system builds and still is very much my case of choice)

John - WUGNET

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#2 of 384

     Posted 4/11/09 10:51 AM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 5671  Last Jul-7
To  John Crea /WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.2 Message 164467.2 replying to 164467.1 164467.1 ]    

<< what is YOUR pick for a full tower case?? >>

 PC Power and Cooling full tower ATX case  .... <g>

Weighs a ton but came with 4 x 5.25 external bays plus a bunch of internals .... shame the front panel USB connectors never worked ....

Pity they don't make cases any more.

How about:

Antec P183 (0761345-81830-8) Specification

  • 11 drive bays
    - External 4 x 5.25"; 1 x 3.5"
    - Internal 6 x 3.5" for HDD
  • Cooling system:
    - 1 rear (standard) 120mm x 25mm TriCool fan
    - 1 top (standard) 120mm x 25mm TriCool fan
    - 1 lower front chamber - 120mm fan (optional)
    - 1 upper front chamber - 120mm fan (optional)
    - 1 middle chamber - 120mm fan (optional)
  • Cable organizers behind motherboard tray minimize cable clutter
  • Front-mounted ports provide convenient connections:
    - 2 x USB 2.0
    - 1 x eSATA
    - Audio In and Out (HDA and AC '97 compatible)
  • Double hinged door opens up to 270º
  • 7 expansion slots
  • 0.8mm cold rolled steel chassis for durability
  • Motherboard: Mini-ITX, microATX and Standard ATX
  • Case dimensions:
    - 20.25"(H) x 8.1"(W) x 19.9"(D)
    - 514 mm (H) x 205 mm (W) x 507 mm (D)
    - Net weight: 30.9 lbs / 14 kg
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#3 of 384

     Posted 4/11/09 11:00 AM   
John Crea /WUGNET
 
From  John Crea /WUGNET  Posts 2184  Last 4/18/09
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.3 Message 164467.3 replying to 164467.2 164467.2 ]    
Hugh Apparently PC Power and Cooling didn't actually make the case, it was made by California PC Products, and they STILL make and sell them - don't know what they are going for these days 1-800-394-4122 or www.calpc.com/ Not too enthused about a case that will not take a EATX mobo, just to cover all my bases (one of my older machines used a WATX motherboard - dual PIII CPUs and that mobo was BIG) John
Edited 4/11/09   by  John Crea /WUGNET
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#4 of 384

     Posted 4/11/09 11:10 AM   
John Crea /WUGNET
 
From  John Crea /WUGNET  Posts 2184  Last 4/18/09
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.4 Message 164467.4 replying to 164467.2 164467.2 ]    

Hugh

Also, I have modified that full tower case to let me mount 2 120mm fans on the top/lid of the case blowing out for better airflow/cooling (or for mounting a liquid cooling radiator). Also built a holder to let me mount another 120mm fan in front of the harddrives and vented the drive bay covers for that area.

Have also mounted another 120mm fan on the bottom of the case blowing UP across the mobo and out the top. That plus the 120mm fan in the PSU so far has resulted in a very cool system (but then I am not overclocking NOR running multiples of the monster video cards that produce a ton of heat all by their lonesome)

John

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#5 of 384

     Posted 4/11/09 12:27 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 5671  Last Jul-7
To  John Crea /WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.5 Message 164467.5 replying to 164467.3 164467.3 ]    
Interesting to know.
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#6 of 384

     Posted 4/11/09 12:28 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 5671  Last Jul-7
To  John Crea /WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.6 Message 164467.6 replying to 164467.4 164467.4 ]    

I'm very happy with my case as delivered with the two fans .....

I don't overclock and my video card is substandard by modern concepts but it works for me although if I ever upgrade the CPU which would mean a new motherboard and new memory and so possible a non-AGP video card ......

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#7 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 12:37 AM   
Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum
 
From  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum  Posts 102  Last 5/19/09
To  John Crea /WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.7 Message 164467.7 replying to 164467.1 164467.1 ]    

Hi John,

  I plan on buying an i7 processor.  There are three available at this time from Newegg.  I could start out with the cheapest one or I could save money for 2 to 3 months and buy the i7 Extreme at just a little under $1000.00

 I am still thinking about the case which must be a Full Tower Case.  I want the room in it.  And I would also want to mount  many 120 fans.  I would not be OverClocking anything.  I do play some games. But the FPS games are few and far between these days.  I will stick with a 32Bit OS.

  Many things to consider. Motherboard, RAM 6GB, Power Supply, Cooler for the CPU which would be an i7, Video card, Case, Hard drives, DVD dual layer - RW/CD-RW,  I want a floppy drive, but I suppose I could be talked out of having one, if other means are possible.  Motherboard I would want the best as well as the Case,

i7 ASUS Motherboards  - 11 of them
i7 Gigabyte Motherboards - 5 of them
   GIGABYTE GA-EX58-EXTREME
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/WebPage/mb_081027_x58/data/tech_081027_x58_models.htm
i7 MSI motherboards - 5 of them
i7 Intel motherboard 1 only 

I do not include these i7 motherboards, EVGA seems to be good?
SUPERMICRO
Foxconn
EVGA
XFX
ASROCK
ECS
BIOSTAR
ZOTAC
DFI

Scott Evans
MS-Internet Explorer forum
Microsoft MVP - IE

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#8 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 1:51 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.8 Message 164467.8 replying to 164467.7 164467.7 ]    

PMJI:

>>I would also want to mount  many 120 fans

More does not translate to "better".  Multiple fans may cause disruption of airflow, reducing efficiency...

>>I will stick with a 32Bit OS.  RAM 6GB

Knowing that a 32 bit OS can only use 3.2 to 3.5G?  That's a lot of Ram that will never be used bt a 32 bit OS...

>>I would not be OverClocking anything

Why all the fans then?

>>Cooler for the CPU

What's wrong with Intel's stock cooler, since you are not overclocking?

>>Motherboard I would want the best as well

The best for what?  No one size fits all...

 

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#9 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 11:40 AM   
John Crea /WUGNET
 
From  John Crea /WUGNET  Posts 2184  Last 4/18/09
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.9 Message 164467.9 replying to 164467.7 164467.7 ]    

Scott

If you are not interested in overclocking, then by all means, look at the INTEL motherboards - rock solid, and great warranty (on the retail version)

Power supply - top end would be one from PC Power and Cooling
Bottom line, don't scrimp on the PSU and get one big enough (watts) that you won't out grow. My suggestion would be something in the 750watt range
Google and you can find some in depth reviews of various PSUs - do some homework and buy a good one

Ram, just about any quality ram will do you fine, Crucial comes to mind as does Corsair

Harddrives - pick one unless you are looking for a 15000 rpm job. Just about ALL the current 7200 rpm drives will be fine. With a modern system, go SATA - and remember, no one ever complained about having too much extra space/storage

Video card - best bang for the buck right now is something like the NVida 9800GT, or comparable from ATI. Not cutting edge, but more than adequate for the majority of games out there

CD/DVD drive - pick one, but the ones from LiteOn are inexpensive and do the job

With a full tower case, if the mobo has a floppy connector, then get a 3.5in drive and install it If you really depend on a floppy - buy a spare or two - they are not expensive. I like the drives from TEAC

Cooler, again, google is your friend, and there are tons of websites that have reviews, etc. Liquid cooling is probably not what you need, but there are a lot of good after market coolers that will cool the CPU better than the stock one from Intel, but will cost you $35-$70 Many require a mounting plate under the mobo, so be sure to install the CPU and mounting plate BEFORE installing the mobo in the case. Personally, I install the cooler at the same time I install the CPU and (if needed) the mounting plate

John

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#10 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 4:55 PM   
Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum
 
From  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum  Posts 102  Last 5/19/09
To  John Crea /WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.10 Message 164467.10 replying to 164467.9 164467.9 ]    

HI John,

  My current computer is a Dell 8100 desktop, 1.7Ghz with 512MB of RDRAM, and two 200GB Western Digital hard drives.  These run through a, Win2003 Promise Ultra133 TX2(tm) IDE Controller card.  I wanted the computer to see the size of the hard drives basically.  WinXP sees the hard drives but I wanted the computer to basically know what is installed.
  As long as this computer works I can take my time buying what I need concerning the motherboard, the processor i7, RAM, Case, PSU, Video card, hard drives and other drives.

  The floppy drive I suppose I could use a USB2 external Floppy drive.  CD and DVD drives and BlueRay DVD.  As I see it a DVD dual layer RW - CD/RW combo is OK even a pair of them.  I don't use my PC monitor as a TV and don't watch movies on my PC but do on occasion.  So Blue Ray I would think may help out in this case.  But plain CD/RW and DVD RW are good at what they do.

Intel offers one motherboard for the i7 processor.
 Intel BOXDX58SO LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
$244.99. 
   It looks good, but if I want all the bells and whistles  and the ability to overclock them maybe the Gigabyte motherboard for the i7. GIGABYTE GA-EX58-EXTREME LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard ?  Unless there is something better.

  The Processor from Intel would be the i7.  I could buy the most expensive Extreme Edition 965 Nehalem 3.2GHz - $999.99.  I have the time as far as I can see to buy the parts I want and build the computer I want.  I could buy the cheaper i7 processor,  920 Nehalem 2.66GHz  -  $288.99.  But probably would go for the Extreme Edition I7 processor.

  RAM would be 6GB as I would dual boot as I do not on my current computer.  WinXP Pro/Vista Ultimate.  Ram would be limited to WinXP but it would be all useable by Vista.  Who knows about Windows 7.

The power supply I was thinking of the PSU below which has a higher output.
PC Power & Cooling PPCT1200ESA 1200W ATX12V

  Hard drives would be from Western Digital one 500GB mail and one 1TB or higher second drive. SATA drives

 Video card I would want one with all the bells and whistles, as well as all the ports that can be used if needed.  Maybe a TV tuner card also.  Unless there is a combo Video card TV Tuner card?

 Other drives DVD/RW and CD/RW, I would want a combo DVD Dual layer CD/RW - CDRW drive. Maybe a pair of them.

  The Floppy drive I have always had, and to be without one would be strange.  Had one go bad on this computer and the computer was less than a year old.  I suppose I could go with an external USB2 floppy drive, if the motherboard does not support it.

  Water cooling I would never use.  Water and electricity do not mix.  I suppose as long as all connections are secure then there are no leaks.  The pipes would not sweat as they are not using cold liquids as in  Air Conditioning.
  There are many, many, many CPU coolers available.  Would have to get the one that fits the case and motherboard.

  I would not overclock.  Don't see the need.  I am not an online gamer.  I play FPS type games and Flight syms.  Many of which I can't play on my current computer, as they need a better video generally.   I remember when a person had to slow down the computer to play some games.  3 Ghz was unheard of back in the good old and slow days.

  Recommendations on any equipment is helpful.

Scott Evans
MS-Internet Explorer forum
Microsoft MVP - IE

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#11 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 6:03 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 5671  Last Jul-7
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.11 Message 164467.11 replying to 164467.10 164467.10 ]    

One CPU @ $1000 ?

Have you looked at the sort of ready built machine you can get for that order of price?

Eg at Newegg:

HP Pavilion Elite m9650f (NJ062AA#ABA) Intel Core i7 920(2.66GHz) 6GB DDR3 750GB NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit - Retail

HP's specification here

And that's not the cheapest with i7 if that's what you want as CPU ....

The only shortcoming if you wanted to add inside would be the 460W PSU

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#12 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 6:46 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.12 Message 164467.12 replying to 164467.10 164467.10 ]    

>>Ram would be limited to WinXP but it would be all useable by Vista. 

ONLY if you run the 64 bit version!!!

ALL 32-bit versions of Windows, including Vista and Windows 7 have the 3.2 to 3.5G limitation...

>>I would not overclock.

Why the insistance pf a non-stock cooler then?

 

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#13 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 8:06 PM   
Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum
 
From  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum  Posts 102  Last 5/19/09
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.13 Message 164467.13 replying to 164467.11 164467.11 ]    

Hi Hugh,

  This computer is nice.  But I would rather build one.  The power supply as you note is on the low side.  What can be added as to another Video card if I wanted one?  As well as other slots.

  I was sort of turned off from HP computers when I learned in the past that they included the OS in the BIOS (cmos) I believe.  A person was basically stuck with what they sell you, locked to that Windows Operating System. I don't like this.  I want the ability to install what I want.

  Prebuilt computers are OK if you want a computer fast.  And just plug it in hook things up and start it basically.  I don't want a computer that is basically old before I get it.  The processor is good, maybe a few other things like drives.  But the rest of the computer is cheap.  

Scott Evans
MS-Internet Explorer forum
Microsoft MVP - IE

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#14 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 8:21 PM   
Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum
 
From  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum  Posts 102  Last 5/19/09
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164467.14 Message 164467.14 replying to 164467.12 164467.12 ]    

Hi Dale,

  OK on this.  Vista 32 bit is basically the same as WinXP 32 bit, concerning memory that can be used.

  Can a person dual boot and use a 32 bit OS and a 64 bit OS for each boot?

  The stock cooler for the CPU could be OK.  But there are other coolers that can be better or cool it down more.  I don't know of anything that has details about a CPU running to cool.  Then they say super cooling lets electricity flow better, depending on the metal used

  Anyway when you build a computer you can use what comes with the parts buy, or you can buy your own parts and the included parts used as backups, it needed.  Sure it can be a waste of money.

  It may be 9 or 10 months before I start with the new computer.  Things could be cheaper by then?  But I want to plan and have everything lock down as to what I will be buying.

Scott Evans
MS-Internet Explorer forum
Microsoft MVP - IE

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#15 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 8:53 PM   
Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET
 
From  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET  Posts 5671  Last Jul-7
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.15 Message 164467.15 replying to 164467.13 164467.13 ]    

It's your call if you can afford the luxury ...

As was intrigued to see that that HP came on the market on March 13 2009.....

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#16 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 9:11 PM   
Dan in Saint Louis
 
From  Dan in Saint Louis  Posts 1204  Last 9:21 AM
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.16 Message 164467.16 replying to 164467.14 164467.14 ]    
It may be 9 or 10 months before I start with the new computer.  Things could be cheaper by then?  But I want to plan and have everything lock down as to what I will be buying.

If you lock down now what to buy in 10 months, you will be missing out on some nice parts.



KILROY WAS HERE
---- Dan in Saint Louis
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#17 of 384

     Posted 4/13/09 10:07 PM   
John Crea /WUGNET
 
From  John Crea /WUGNET  Posts 2184  Last 4/18/09
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.17 Message 164467.17 replying to 164467.10 164467.10 ]    

If you want all the bells and whistles, the Asus P6T Deluxe/OC Palm is going to be hard to beat for an i7 mobo

I would go with at least 6gig of ram, and with the ASUS board would probably bump it to 12gig total

I think I would NOT go for the i7 extreme - not nearly enough extra bang for all that extra money. There will be more i7 CPUs coming, I would wait and see what happens to the i7 Extreme prices

As to harddrives, a WD Velociraptor for the 1st drive and then whatever in the 1tb or larger for the second drive.

The PC Power and Cooling PSU is fine

Water cooling has come a long way in the past 5yrs, but it IS more expensive, but also is usually much quieter and MORE efficient. Even main line brands are now offering machines with liquid cooling

John

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#18 of 384

     Posted 4/14/09 12:01 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum      [Msg # 164467.18 Message 164467.18 replying to 164467.14 164467.14 ]    

>>Vista 32 bit is basically the same as WinXP 32 bit, concerning memory that can be used.

32 bit Windows can address a max of 4G.  With memory mapping needed for devices, part of that 4G is reserved, so Windows gets the rest...

>>Can a person dual boot and use a 32 bit OS and a 64 bit OS for each boot?

Sure...

>>there are other coolers that can be better

Better in what way?  As you are not overclocking, the Intel cooler does fine.  I run my Core 2 Duo 24/7 with the stock Intel cooler.  Not a single issue.  I'm not an overclocker either...

I suspect the "tweakers" have disctorted some of your references...

>>I don't know of anything that has details about a CPU running to cool. 

Who says the cooling is either needed nor desired?  Larger fans use more power and the heat has to go somewhere...

>>It may be 9 or 10 months before I start with the new computer.

Stop shopping.  6 months from now, the game will have changed...

 

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#19 of 384

     Posted 4/14/09 1:01 AM   
Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum
 
From  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum  Posts 102  Last 5/19/09
To  Hugh Wyn Griffith WUGNET      [Msg # 164467.19 Message 164467.19 replying to 164467.15 164467.15 ]    

Hi Hugh,

  In 10 months I will be able to afford it.  My Jeep os paid off now so that is an extra 500.00 I need to save.  After the 10 months then I can save and then start buying what I need.  But 10 minths is a long time to wait.

Scott Evans
MS-Internet Explorer forum
Microsoft MVP - IE

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#20 of 384

     Posted 4/14/09 1:04 AM   
Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum
 
From  Scott D Evans/Sysop/IESUPPORT Forum  Posts 102  Last 5/19/09
To  Dan in Saint Louis      [Msg # 164467.20 Message 164467.20 replying to 164467.16 164467.16 ]    

Hi Dan,

  In 10 months who knows what prices will be.  What new motherboards and CPU's will be avalable.  I would think that most things will still be around and or a bit improved.  Parts sort of burned in by others and reports about them?

Scott Evans
MS-Internet Explorer forum
Microsoft MVP - IE

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Buy,Build,Overclock

Case selection

  
 
     

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