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Message Area
Network Hardware

Netgear /vs/ 3COM DSL+Wifi Router?

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#1 of 33

     Posted Oct-31 1:58 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1610  Last Nov-23
To  All      [Msg # 164712.1 ]    

http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessNRoutersandGateways/DGN2000.aspx

http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=features&pathtype=purchase&sku=3CRWDR300A-73

Which one would you chose, if you were looking for a dependable Wifi-n dsl modem combo? Netgear almost makes it sound like they only support 5 GHz equipment in order to cut interference, which could be a problem.

 

But I'm looking at supporting equipment that runs .g and .n modes, and I want better than WPA encryption available in it, along with any other security I can get. AND, a reliable box. Replacing a Westell (Verizon's & AT&Ts OEM) that sometimes just goes out to lunch apparently, so we're going to try replacing it to see just how guilty it is. I expect either of thse boxes will work with AT&T.

 

Horror stories? Praise for customer support?

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#2 of 33

     Posted Oct-31 5:27 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  groucho      [Msg # 164712.2 Message 164712.2 replying to 164712.1 164712.1 ]    

>>I expect either of thse boxes will work with AT&T

Based on what info?  Verizon, for example, rarely supports third party DSL stuff.  I doubt AT&T does either...

Best ask AT&T directly about this, to be certain...

>>Netgear almost makes it sound like they only support 5 GHz equipment

Not certain what you mean - Netgear's Specs on the link you listed state:

--------------------
IEEE 802.11n version, IEEE 802.11g, IEEE 802.11b, 2.4 GHz
-------------------

 

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#3 of 33

     Posted Oct-31 8:09 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1610  Last Nov-23
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.3 Message 164712.3 replying to 164712.2 164712.2 ]    

At least one of the mfrs expressly states the box supports several major ISPs including Verizon & AT&T. I haven't gotten a repsonse back from the second yet. Of course, none of the major ISPs will support a box they haven't sold, but that's immaterial. "Oh my yes, there are tigers in my village. Of course my ma ma never called me Rodger, that is my work name."

Netgears specs are one thing, the blurbs they put out on various seller sites are another.

Plenty of drilling down to do, but before I was time on research, I figured I'd look for opinions of experience rather than manufacturer's biased and often inaccurate claims.

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#4 of 33

     Posted Oct-31 9:10 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  groucho      [Msg # 164712.4 Message 164712.4 replying to 164712.3 164712.3 ]    

>>At least one of the mfrs expressly states

Matters not.  If the TELCO does not explicitly state it works, the modem makers can claim all they want...

>>none of the major ISPs will support a box they haven't sold, but that's immaterial

Don't be so sure.  When the box does not work, you are SOL because all the ISP will state is "not approved" and you are dead in the water...

Is there a problen contacting the ISP?  For examole, Cox (my ISP) has a list of "approved" Cable Modems - anything on that list will get support from Cox.  Anything else will NOT, no matter what the model vendor claims...

Like it or not, that's how things work...

 

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#5 of 33

     Posted Nov-1 2:24 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1610  Last Nov-23
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.5 Message 164712.5 replying to 164712.4 164712.4 ]    

"Is there a problen contacting the ISP? "

 None at all. The ISP has a 24x7x365.25 phone support center in Hyberabad where the most excellently enunciating script readers will tell you that the only equipment they support, is the equipment they sell. At full retail price and often with a contract extention.

 Your theories are great, but on this planet, they often don't match reality. The ISP is not my friend, I am not their valued customer, the deal is "HEY RUBE!" and taken 'em for all they've got. If the equipment vendor says it will work, it will often work. If it doesn't, the nice folks at the credit card company will write down "non-conforming goods, not what customer ordered" and charge it back, leaving me to owe nothing.

 

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#6 of 33

     Posted Nov-1 4:14 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  groucho      [Msg # 164712.6 Message 164712.6 replying to 164712.5 164712.5 ]    

I bever said there were your friend, but to just ignore them is, IMHO, not a good approach...

You are expecting the third party vendors to be your friend???

I never said PURCHASE the thing from the ISP, I said "check for compatibility"...

 

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#7 of 33

     Posted Nov-1 10:40 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1610  Last Nov-23
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.7 Message 164712.7 replying to 164712.6 164712.6 ]    

"I never said PURCHASE the thing from the ISP, I said "check for compatibility"..."

 Once again, let me try to explain this to you.

The ISP's definition of compatible equipment is "Did we sell it to you? If we didn't sell it to you, we don't know anything about it." Although, they'll now be glad to charge a fairly stiff hourly level for "level 2 support" which will explore such an issue without making any promises about getting it to work.

Ther equipment maker KNOWS if their gear will work with the ISP, and KNOWS they will have to take it back if it doesn't. The ISP, on the other hand, neither knows nor cares, because they only make money by selling their own OEM-branded equipment.

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#8 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 12:22 PM   
David Bork
 
From  David Bork  Posts 49  Last Nov-23
To  groucho      [Msg # 164712.8 Message 164712.8 replying to 164712.1 164712.1 ]    
My two cents worth on ISP support:

I struggled for years with the ATT (originally SBC) supplied Siemens DSL modem.  I "enjoyed" their support, from India, every time I called and listened to the call center person read from a notebook.  When my modem wouldn't stay on line for more than a few hours at a time I managed to get escallated to a service tech, from St. Louis, who said my modem was most likely the problem. He arranged a service call to my house, to have the lines checked.  The tech confirmed that the lines to my house were not the problem.  In our conversation, he gave the company line that I could go to Best Buy and get the ATT aproved modem for around $70.  Then, he casually mentioned that some people get a Zoom modem from Fry's.  I took that as a hint and went over to Fry's and got a Zoom X5 modem/4 port router for $80.  I plugged it in and it just works.  Constant hard booting is a thing of the past. I haven't had to call anyone at ATT for any reason, since.  Well, except for the time lightning fried the telco connection cabinet serving my neighborhood, and the phones were out for 8 days. (-:

David M. Bork

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#9 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 12:34 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  David Bork      [Msg # 164712.9 Message 164712.9 replying to 164712.8 164712.8 ]    

FWIW, tried a Zoom unit on Verizon and found it to not be compatble as Verizon does some things that only the Westel units handle...

 

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#10 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 7:17 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1610  Last Nov-23
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.10 Message 164712.10 replying to 164712.9 164712.9 ]    

"Verizon does some things that only the Westel units handle..."

Can you be more specific about what things are "some" things?

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#11 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 7:38 PM   
D.F. Yriart
 
From  D.F. Yriart  Posts 94  Last 8:58 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.11 Message 164712.11 replying to 164712.9 164712.9 ]    
Dale,

>> FWIW, tried a Zoom unit on Verizon and found it to not be compatble as Verizon does some things that only the Westel units handle... <<

Really? I wonder why my 3com DSL modem is working? <g>

Doug Yriart
Linux Rocks!

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#12 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 9:46 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  groucho      [Msg # 164712.12 Message 164712.12 replying to 164712.10 164712.10 ]    

Purchased a Zoom Modem and attached it to the Verizon DSL line.  Nothing I did could get it working.  Verizon sent a replacement Westell unit (different model than what the customer originally had).  Plugged in, turned on and it came right up...

Contacted Verizon and was informed they only worked with the Modems they supply due to internal items...

Will that do?

 

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#13 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 9:47 PM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  D.F. Yriart      [Msg # 164712.13 Message 164712.13 replying to 164712.11 164712.11 ]    

No clue, sorry...

 

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#14 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 11:00 PM   
D.F. Yriart
 
From  D.F. Yriart  Posts 94  Last 8:58 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.14 Message 164712.14 replying to 164712.13 164712.13 ]    
Dale,

>> No clue, sorry... <<

It was a trick question. :-) The 3com DSL modem was provided by Verizon. Actually, by Verizon Avenue, their subsidiary that serves high-rise buildings and gated communities.

Doug Yriart
Linux Rocks!

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#15 of 33

     Posted Nov-7 11:54 PM   
groucho
 
From  groucho  Posts 1610  Last Nov-23
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.15 Message 164712.15 replying to 164712.12 164712.12 ]    

"Contacted Verizon and was informed they only worked with the Modems they supply due to internal items..."

 No, that will not do. That only means Verizon reps lie through their teeth, as do most corporate reps these days, sadly. We both know there are any number of setup parameters that can totally block the connection and being told "ignore the man behind the curtain" does not mean anything relevant.

 I had an AT&T rep tell me that I couldn't use a Westell 327W with their DSL because it was a Verizon OEM model (as apparently is almost all the Westell equipment on the market, OEM'd to one or another ex-Bell company) and then, funny thing, the AT&T self-installation CD for the el-cheapo Westell USB-or-ethernet but not both box, autodetected and installed the same Westell that AT&T said couldn't ever be used with them. They lied, big surprise. Translation? Oh, our script books no longer supply DNS server or IP gateway addresses, so those settings can't be made or given at all, ever, to anyone. Ahuh.

 I've heard "that can't work here, ever" for decades, and you know the funny thing? Once in a long while, it is true. But when it is true, someone can always explain why. When they just start puffing smoke, they're inevitably lying again.

 There are federal and state regulations about bundling, illegal restraint of competition, and wire fraud, but generally the feds kick it upstairs to an "executive office" where someone calls you Sir and apologizes for the confusion and gives you the simple answer--which keeps the feds happy too. Or haven't you ever seen the way a Public Servic Commission rep at any telco-related company can not only walk on water, but convince you that's all part of their routine service?

 

 Not that the equipment makers are always any better. Back in the NT4 days, I went through hoops with 3COM (which was busy absorbing then spinning off then reabsorbing USRobotics) about getting some card modems to work under NT4 or on a Compaq. After a couple of escalations, finally one of them said outright "It works with NT4, but Compaq isn't properly supporting NT" and their story stayed the same with NT5, even though the machine in question was one of the exact same models used by Compaq AND MICROSOFT to develop and test NT5 internally at MS.

They (almost) all lie, the only question is how much and how often. Ain't no LLBean or LandsEnd in the tech business, although a few often come close.


Edited Nov-7   by  groucho
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#16 of 33

     Posted Nov-8 12:23 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  groucho      [Msg # 164712.16 Message 164712.16 replying to 164712.15 164712.15 ]    

Then I suggest you stop asking and go do, since you refuse to consider anythig that is against your belief here...

 

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#17 of 33

     Posted Nov-8 12:24 AM   
Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)
 
From  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)  Posts 1978  Last 2:18 AM
To  D.F. Yriart      [Msg # 164712.17 Message 164712.17 replying to 164712.14 164712.14 ]    

They may use different connections as a high-eise buildng most likely would vause a line lomger than the usual obe to the CO...

 

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#18 of 33

     Posted Nov-8 6:32 AM   
D.F. Yriart
 
From  D.F. Yriart  Posts 94  Last 8:58 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.18 Message 164712.18 replying to 164712.16 164712.16 ]    
Gee, Dale,

>> since you refuse to consider anythig that is against your belief here... <<

You sound just like Judy giving you advice. <vbg>

Doug Yriart
Linux Rocks!

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#19 of 33

     Posted Nov-8 6:36 AM   
D.F. Yriart
 
From  D.F. Yriart  Posts 94  Last 8:58 AM
To  Dale G. Shields (WUGNET)      [Msg # 164712.19 Message 164712.19 replying to 164712.17 164712.17 ]    
Dale,

>> They may use different connections as a high-eise buildng most likely would vause a line lomger than the usual obe to the CO... <<

The secret of Verizon Avenue is that they put a mini-CO in the basements of the buildings they serve. It's about 30 feet from the elevator shaft on my side of the building. I'm on the 11th floor, about 30 feet the other side of the elevator shaft. The cables come up the shaft. I'm probably about 200 feet from the DSLAM.

Doug Yriart
Linux Rocks!

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#20 of 33

     Posted Nov-8 10:41 AM   
John in Detroit
 
From  John in Detroit  Posts 3243  Last Nov-24
To  David Bork      [Msg # 164712.20 Message 164712.20 replying to 164712.8 164712.8 ]    
There is one difference they don't mention between the AT&T supplied modem and the ZOOM or the AT&T approved modem.

When my original SpeedStreem modem went south.. I called AT&T (Then Ameritech) Customer Support... Got a genuine American technician, (Upon esclation) who very quickly decided the modem was toast and overnighted me a brand new one.

A few minutes after opening the box I was on line once again.

You go to B.B. or Frys.. or ___(anyone but AT&T)____when it dies, You got to go lay your money down once again.
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Network Hardware

Netgear /vs/ 3COM DSL+Wifi Router?

  
 
     

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