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Post-Processing / Retouching

Clone Stamp vs. Healing Brush

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#1 of 99

     Posted Nov-4 3:21 PM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  All      [Msg # 34899.1 ]    
What is the difference in the clone stamp tool and healing brush?  They seem much the same to me.
Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#2 of 99

     Posted Nov-4 4:29 PM   
Libby
 
From  Libby  Posts 408  Last 7:54 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.2 Message 34899.2 replying to 34899.1 34899.1 ]    
Hi Nancy -

The clone stamp does just that - it copies the area you designate to the area where you paint.  In some cases, this is exactly what you want to do, though it can present problems with duplicating exactly the right shadowing/highlight from one area to another and the demarcation between areas cloned and areas not can be pronounced.  It's also hard to avoid seeing a repeating "pattern" where you clone from and where you clone to.  I know that CS4 has improved this tool immensely by allowing you to see exactly what you will be cloning into a space. 

The healing brush, on the other hand, is as intent on rendering proper texture as anything else.  I think it's also better at blending, even when the area you heal "from" has a slightly different lighting than where you are applying the healing brush.  I find the effects of this less harsh most of the time and easier to blend in properly.  To me at least, there is far less tendency to see a repeating "pattern" in the area treated.

I'm sure others will be along with further thoughts and, in Cristen's case <S>, a very nice rendering of the hows and whys of each tool.

Libby
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#3 of 99

     Posted Nov-4 4:43 PM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Libby      [Msg # 34899.3 Message 34899.3 replying to 34899.2 34899.2 ]    
I used the cloning stamp on a photo where that repeating pattern showed up and spoiled it.  One day I'll have to post it and get suggestions on how to handle the problem that the cloning stamp was supposed to solve.
Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#4 of 99

     Posted Nov-4 7:31 PM   
Fred O. - BDL
 
From  Fred O. - BDL  Posts 328  Last 1:40 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.4 Message 34899.4 replying to 34899.3 34899.3 ]    
<<"and spoiled it.">>

I hope that you were working on duplicate of the background layer........?
 Fred
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#5 of 99

     Posted Nov-4 11:35 PM   
Jon Woolf
 
From  Jon Woolf  Posts 731  Last Nov-20
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.5 Message 34899.5 replying to 34899.3 34899.3 ]    
Nancy,

Offered for what it's worth:

IMX, there are two situations where Clone Stamp is very useful.  One is if you explicitly want to get the repeating pattern -- copy a window, a section of fence, something like that.  The other is where you have a 'copy from' area that's large and irregularly textured, like a cloudscape or an expanse of bare dirt.  By carefully selecting where to clone from, and then doing several clone actions instead of one, you can produce a result where the repeating is virtually invisible because it gets lost against the already-irregular background. 

As for Healing Brush, I find that useful mainly for fixing dirt, hairs, and other small flaws like that.  And I used it once to blend together two layers along their contact line.  Other than that, I haven't had much use for it.  I think I remember reading that portrait photographers use it a lot to remove skin blemishes.   

-- JSW
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#6 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 12:05 AM   
Libby
 
From  Libby  Posts 408  Last 7:54 AM
To  Fred O. - BDL      [Msg # 34899.6 Message 34899.6 replying to 34899.4 34899.4 ]    
Fred & Nancy -

From what I've read and seen in seminars recently, the best way to use either the clone stamp or the healing brush is to work on a blank layer and make sure the "sample" option is set for "current layer and below".  That way, if it gets messed up, you can simply trash the blank layer and start again with a new blank layer. 

Libby
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#7 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 1:11 AM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Fred O. - BDL      [Msg # 34899.7 Message 34899.7 replying to 34899.4 34899.4 ]    

I saved the original scan and also worked on a duplicate layer in the copy.  However, I see I managed to do additional clone stamping on the spot removal layer.  I did this over a year ago, so the file is long since closed and the spot removal will have to be done over whenever I get back to it, so I may just do it over from the original scan.  I'm attaching a JPEG of the background layer so you can see the problem.  I was trying to get rid of those streaks and cloned grass from above and below them, but the repetitive pattern didn't look good.


Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum


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Name:   Nancy_Schaefer_velvetcoat_c1943_small.jpgSize:   478 K
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#8 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 1:19 AM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Jon Woolf      [Msg # 34899.8 Message 34899.8 replying to 34899.5 34899.5 ]    
Thanks, Jon.  I think I have used the clone stamp when I shouldn't have.
Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#9 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 1:23 AM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Libby      [Msg # 34899.9 Message 34899.9 replying to 34899.6 34899.6 ]    

work on a blank layer and make sure the "sample" option is set for "current layer and below". 


I can create a blank layer (Layer>New), but don't know how to set the "sample" option.  I've been using the healing brush and spot healing brush on duplicate layers which can then be turned off or deleted.


Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#10 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 2:53 AM   
Fred O. - BDL
 
From  Fred O. - BDL  Posts 328  Last 1:40 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.10 Message 34899.10 replying to 34899.8 34899.8 ]    
<<"I think I have used the clone stamp when I shouldn't have.">>
 Nancy -
 The clone stamp has one specific use where it is clearly superior.
When you are working near the edge of a border between - for example - a dark and a light object, you can precisely control the "spillover" or area sampled and area replaced.
The automated tools (healing brush, etc.) sample their surroundings, and are troublesome near edges and borders.
When I cleaned up John C's image of Margaret in another thread, I used the clone stamp near edges, and the healing brushes (spot or otherwise) in more uniform areas, or areas where you could not detect artifacts.  Clone stamp less than 5 % of the time.
 Fred

Edited Nov-5   by  Fred O. - BDL
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#11 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 2:59 AM   
Fred O. - BDL
 
From  Fred O. - BDL  Posts 328  Last 1:40 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.11 Message 34899.11 replying to 34899.9 34899.9 ]    
<<"but don't know how to set the "sample" option. ">>
It's in the tool bar that pops up with the clone stamp, at least.

If you work on a blank layer, you can see all your edits by turning off the background layer.
If I expect to work on alterations a lot, I do that.
For quick and dirty clean up or minor adjustments, I use a duplicate layer, solely to preserve the background layer untouched.  The blank layer is actually the best way to go, as Libby notes; for some reason, I've fallen out of the habit of using one, and regret it when I need to go back and fine tune a change.
Fred
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#12 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 7:48 AM   
Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore
 
From  Ron Wrucke-VA Eastern Shore  Posts 788  Last Nov-24
To  Fred O. - BDL      [Msg # 34899.12 Message 34899.12 replying to 34899.11 34899.11 ]    
<<The blank layer is actually the best way to go, as Libby notes; for some reason, I've fallen out of the habit of using one, and regret it when I need to go back and fine tune a change.>>

.. my excuse is that I forget, and my excuse for forgetting is advancing age, and my excuse for advancing age is ... hmmmm; I forget .. ??

Ron Wrucke
Eastern Shore Imaging

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#13 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 7:58 AM   
Libby
 
From  Libby  Posts 408  Last 7:54 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.13 Message 34899.13 replying to 34899.9 34899.9 ]    
Nancy -

When you choose a tool, be it a regular brush, the healing brush, the clone stamp or whatever, a "toolbar" of options appears at the top of the screen (same place where the ability to set a particular size and dpi shows up when you choose the crop tool).  The "Sample" option that I spoke of is at the right end of this "toolbar".  This is a screen shot from CS3.

Libby

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#14 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 9:23 AM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Libby      [Msg # 34899.14 Message 34899.14 replying to 34899.13 34899.13 ]    
When I tried this last night, I was really tired and probably didn't have the clone stamp tool selected.  I may have had the healing brush selected so I didn't see the options you mentioned.
Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#15 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 11:43 AM   
Cristen
 
From  Cristen  Posts 2346  Last 10:23 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.15 Message 34899.15 replying to 34899.7 34899.7 ]    
What a cute picture. It has more problems than dirt and scratches, but it's defnitely adorable, and what's surrounding her isn't all that important. Therefore, you don't have to worry too much about it.

When you have lots of light/dark -- that is, texture -- you might try the Patch tool. It doesn't work on a blank layer, but it's always a good idea to duplicate your background anyway. That way you won't Undo a stroke on your blank layer and find yourself, with that undo, back on the image layer without realising it until you've brushed your way to no return. And yes, if you've targeted another layer, gone back and made a stroke, undone it because it was lousy, you do wind up undoing both the targeting and the brushing, and you're back on the previously targeted layer.<sigh>

The reason I mention the patch tool is because it can carry the light/dark of texture over an area often better than the healing, or spot healing brush. So if you're getting too much softness with healing, patching may work.

There are no hard and fast rules for clone versus heal. Those of us who were raised on cloning and no other option, got pretty good at it. It worked for years and years for everyone -- it still works. If healing smudges and blurs, don't spend an hour making a mess of it. Get comfortable with the clone tool. You'll need both healing and cloning for many old photos. You can avoid a repetitive pattern by moving your selection -- you may even want to turn off "aligned,", and you can use all the tools in combination in the same spot with great rewards.

Clone where you'd otherwise smudge. Heal to smooth any hard edges left by the clone and to restore texture if needed, now that it won't blur and smudge or preserve the lightness/darkness that is itself a flaw. And don't forget that the Clone Stamp is a brush. You can feather the edge. The brush is automatically feathered with healing, but you can still choose to clone with a brush set to, say, 75% Hardness. Or more, or less, as the detail in the image calls for.

These aren't magic bullets we're shooting with. I'm sure Adobe, like everyone else, is trying to come up with something that's foolproof, but you don't have it in your hands now, so you'll have to accept that all your tools are more useful working together than they ever were individually. When you're always working at least on a duplicate layer and Undo is a keystroke away, you don't have to be afraid to experiment with each of the tools in turn.

Take one lousy image and take the time to see how each tool handles the repair. That's what I had to do when they first released the Healing brush. And again when they released the Spot Healing brush. It's not a waste of time, because after that, you'll have a much better ability to anticipate the outcome with any given tool, and you'll be more comfortable with switching between tools.

Cristen
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#16 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 2:31 PM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Cristen      [Msg # 34899.16 Message 34899.16 replying to 34899.15 34899.15 ]    

It has more problems than dirt and scratches, but it's defnitely adorable, and what's surrounding her isn't all that important. Therefore, you don't have to worry too much about it.


The main problem IMO is the strip of light across the picture from below my waist to above my ankles.  There is another one around the tips of my toes across the picture.  I don't remember what I did with the coat and leggings when I worked on the photo, but I cloned the grass from the unlight parts to that strip and it looked fake.  I dealt with spot removal later.

How would you handle those horizontal strips of light across the picture?  Oh I see.  You would use the Patch tool.  I've never used it and couldn't really follow its use in Eismann's book when working with another photo.  I'll have to try it on this one and see if I can figure it out.


Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#17 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 6:17 PM   
Libby
 
From  Libby  Posts 408  Last 7:54 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.17 Message 34899.17 replying to 34899.14 34899.14 ]    
Nancy -

When you're less tired (oh, how I know what you felt last night!), you'll see that the healing brush also has the same "current and below" option.  <S>

Libby
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#18 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 6:19 PM   
Libby
 
From  Libby  Posts 408  Last 7:54 AM
To  Cristen      [Msg # 34899.18 Message 34899.18 replying to 34899.15 34899.15 ]    
Cristen -

I knew you'd pop in with some really helpful advice. <S>  The best of it is, of course, the concept of "play with the tools and see what they do".  That is, indeed, the best way to learn which tool (or combination of tools) will solve which problem. 

Libby
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#19 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 8:26 PM   
Nancy Crays
 
From  Nancy Crays  Posts 697  Last 5:49 AM
To  Libby      [Msg # 34899.19 Message 34899.19 replying to 34899.17 34899.17 ]    
I don't know when one would not want to have the healing brush affect all layers.  I guess there must be times for "current and below" only or it wouldn't be there.

I tried the Patch tool after finding directions in the Help file, but there is so little grass that is dark enough and too much in that blown out strip.  I'm now thinking there has to be a way to darken that strip.  Maybe select and feather and darken.  I'm not going to mess with it now.  Of course, I may do it even though I say I won't. <G>

Nancy C.
Seniors Community
Investing for Growth Forum

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#20 of 99

     Posted Nov-5 9:42 PM   
Libby
 
From  Libby  Posts 408  Last 7:54 AM
To  Nancy Crays      [Msg # 34899.20 Message 34899.20 replying to 34899.19 34899.19 ]    
Nancy -

If you have layers above the blank layer you're using for cloning or healing, you might not want to SAMPLE FROM those layers.  "Current and below" indicates where you will obtain your sampling, not the layers you will affect. 

One thing I've tried instead of the patch tool is a bit longer in process, but I've had some good luck with it.  I use polygonal lasso tool to select what I would otherwise select with the patch tool.  I can then click and drag on that selection to move it to an area I would like to sample FROM.  I then use CTRL+J to create a new layer from that selection.  On this new layer (and I know there must be a simpler way to do this), I change to the magic wand tool and click OUTSIDE my little selection, then SHIFT+CTRL+I to invert the selection.  I then feather the selection a bit (a few pixels for a small selection, perhaps a few more for a large one) and use CTRL+J again to make a new layer with the feathered selection.  I then trash the original selection layer.

Using the MOVE tool, I move my feathered selection over the problem area.  I can change it's "exposure" if need be, transform it (if it won't look awful due to a pattern in the selection or something like that) or do anything I can think of to help it blend in with its new surroundings.

I've had success with the patch tool, too.  However, the above method is what I've used when the patch tool results don't make me happy.

Libby

Edited Nov-5   by  Libby
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Post-Processing / Retouching

Clone Stamp vs. Healing Brush

  
 
     

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