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1

Two Term Limits

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#1 of 31 Posted Nov-4 8:04 PM

From elcondor1776 Posts 1054 Last Nov-7
To All [Msg # 213506.1 ]

How many times have we heard or are even guilty of complaining that members of congress just plain serve too many terms? Well folks I have to say that many times we are guilty for being too lazy and just punching a card or pulling a lever all in the name of name recognition. It's funny how we'll call Castro, Chavez, Mao etc a Dictator for unlimited terms yet we ignore our very own Representatives who take advantage of us and just keep on serving themselves. The question on my mind is now, will Congress act "Boldly" and limit itself to two terms or is it time for us to act "Boldly" and start sending some of these folks packing for home? I am not advocating a Communist or Socialist replacement but I am advocating regardless of which party you support that its time that we as Americans limit the terms of some of these power mooches. Attached is a list of our representatives and how many terms they have served. You decide what we think we should do.

Attachments
	Name: Term_Counts.pdf	Size: 63 K

#2 of 31 Posted Nov-4 8:11 PM

From joanna123jn Posts 9038 Last Nov-24
To elcondor1776 [Msg # 213506.2 213506.1 ] (Unread)

I agree, two terms maximum. However, I think there should also be some way we can keep those representing us from lobbying after they have served their terms.

Message 213506.3 was moved to 213509.1

#4 of 31 Posted Nov-4 10:25 PM

From Dave Tucker - SL- Posts 1975 Last Nov-24
To elcondor1776 [Msg # 213506.4 213506.1 ] (Unread)

The question on my mind is now, will Congress act "Boldly" and limit itself to two terms or is it time for us to act "Boldly" and start sending some of these folks packing for home?>>

What is the matter with the people determining who they want to serve them and for how long they want their servants to serve?

Why do you want to end that democratic practice?

#5 of 31 Posted Nov-5 4:29 PM

From Sysop Jim Dellon Posts 30303 Last Nov-24
To elcondor1776 [Msg # 213506.5 213506.1 ] (Unread)

elcondor --

>>Attached is a list of our representatives and how many terms they have served. You decide what we think we should do. <<

If the people who elected them think they deserve to be reelected, why shouldn't they have the right to the representatives of their choice? Just because YOU think they've been there too long is irrelevant.

If the people whom they represent want new representatives, they already have all the term limits they'll ever need - on election day.

-- jim

#6 of 31 Posted Nov-6 1:46 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31345 Last Nov-24
To Sysop Jim Dellon [Msg # 213506.6 213506.5 ]

If the people who elected them think they deserve to be reelected, why shouldn't they have the right to the representatives of their choice?

Suppose the people who elected them decide they should be legally term-limited. For example, 77% of the voters in Florida voted for state legislator term limits. Would you oppose that?

#7 of 31 Posted Nov-6 1:56 PM

From Sysop Jim Dellon Posts 30303 Last Nov-24
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213506.7 213506.6 ]

hofer --

>>Suppose the people who elected them decide they should be legally term-limited. For example, 77% of the voters in Florida voted for state legislator term limits. Would you oppose that?<<

If that vote included people from outside the district, probably yes, I would oppose. I don't think anyone except the voters in that particular district ought to be able to say whether a long-term legislator can continue to serve the people - and they already have all the term limits they need on election day. They don't need an artificial and arbitrary limitation. If you think Representative John Doe has been there too long, vote for someone else; and if enough of your fellow citizens agree, they'll replace him.

And, yes, I'd be in favor of repealing the 22nd Amendment. Would you?

#8 of 31 Posted Nov-6 2:34 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31345 Last Nov-24
To Sysop Jim Dellon [Msg # 213506.8 213506.7 ]

>>Suppose the people who elected them decide they should be legally term-limited. For example, 77% of the voters in Florida voted for state legislator term limits. Would you oppose that?<<

If that vote included people from outside the district, probably yes, I would oppose.

Districts are not static. They can be gerrymandered at the drop of a hat. What's wrong with all of the state voters agreeing that all state legislators should be subject to the same limits?

And, yes, I'd be in favor of repealing the 22nd Amendment. Would you?

Given how I feel about a ruling aristocracy, of course not.

#9 of 31 Posted Nov-6 2:47 PM

From Sysop Jim Dellon Posts 30303 Last Nov-24
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213506.9 213506.8 ]

hofer --

>>What's wrong with all of the state voters agreeing that all state legislators should be subject to the same limits?<<

It denies the voters in that district the right to select the representative of their choice. Why should people from outside deny them the right to representative democracy?

What exactly is the point of term limits? If a representative is doing a good job, why shouldn't his constituents return him to office - it's really not up to anyone else.

-- jim

Edited Nov-6 by Sysop Jim Dellon

#10 of 31 Posted Nov-6 2:59 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31345 Last Nov-24
To Sysop Jim Dellon [Msg # 213506.10 213506.9 ]

It denies the voters in that district the right to select the representative of their choice.

Don't you imagine that the voters in the 15 states with term limits have considered that?

What exactly is the point of term limits?

A governing aristocracy is inconsistent with the principles of our founding.

If a representative is doing a good job, why shouldn't his constituents return him to office - it's really not up to anyone else.

The power of incumbency - including wasteful pork - virtually guarantees reelection. Reelection is seldom based on performance, unless you believe that 95% of all elected representatives are "doing a good job."

#11 of 31 Posted Nov-6 3:33 PM

From Sysop Jim Dellon Posts 30303 Last Nov-24
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213506.11 213506.10 ]

hofer --

>>Don't you imagine that the voters in the 15 states with term limits have considered that?<<

Apparently not with enough wisdom. No one ever said that the popular choice is the best one.

>>The power of incumbency - including wasteful pork - virtually guarantees reelection.<<

Tell that to all the incumbents who've lost elections because the voters came up with a better choice. Otherwise, the incumbent is doing exactly what his constituents want, and if that includes pork, who are YOU to tell them that they're wrong.

>>A governing aristocracy is inconsistent with the principles of our founding.><<

Then they should have written term limits into the Constitution - and I thought you were one of those "original intent" guys <G>.

The problem with this whole phony term limits issue is that its proponents are arrogantly presuming that they know better than the voters themselves who should represent them - and throw a temper tantrum because sometimes that's the same person year after year. That's not your job - the Constitution reserves that right to the voters.

-- jim

#12 of 31 Posted Nov-6 6:00 PM

From gordonhofer Posts 31345 Last Nov-24
To Sysop Jim Dellon [Msg # 213506.12 213506.11 ]

>>The power of incumbency - including wasteful pork - virtually guarantees reelection.<<

Tell that to all the incumbents who've lost elections because the voters came up with a better choice

Fewer than 5% overall.

if that includes pork, who are YOU to tell them that they're wrong.

Pork for my state is pork taken away from your state.

The problem with this whole phony term limits issue is that its proponents are arrogantly presuming that they know better than the voters themselves who should represent them

Nope. I don't care who you elect. I just don't like the idea of anyone being entitled to a seat in Congress for forty years.

It's simple. I favor term limits and you don't. And neither of us can possibly convince the other. Thanks for the discussion.

#13 of 31 Posted Nov-6 6:11 PM

From othermeanders Posts 532 Last Nov-24
To elcondor1776 [Msg # 213506.13 213506.1 ] (Unread)

t's funny how we'll call Castro, Chavez, Mao etc a Dictator for unlimited terms yet we ignore our very own Representatives who take advantage of us and just keep on serving themselves.

It is interesting that you think taking away the ability to vote for the candidate of your choice is freedom.

#14 of 31 Posted Nov-6 6:22 PM

From Joe S. Posts 299 Last Nov-24
To othermeanders [Msg # 213506.14 213506.13 ]

If you vote for the people we want you to, that is freedom.Vote American!

#15 of 31 Posted Nov-6 6:33 PM

From othermeanders Posts 532 Last Nov-24
To Joe S. [Msg # 213506.15 213506.14 ] (Unread)

If you vote for the people we want you to, that is freedom.Vote American!

Yes, it is interesting that conservatives think that when things go their way it is "freedom" but when it goes the other way it is "fascism" "communism" and "anti-freedom." Somehow everyone is free to do only what conservatives want, or else.

#16 of 31 Posted Nov-7 7:22 AM

From Dave Tucker - SL- Posts 1975 Last Nov-24
To Sysop Jim Dellon [Msg # 213506.16 213506.9 ]

What exactly is the point of term limits?>>.

The point of term limits is to give power to the unelected staff and to those who provide the money to run for office, whose influence is magnified by the lack of experience and knowledge of the virgin representatives.

Term limits also magnify the intransigent nature of partisanship, all to the benefit of those who wish to manipulate the process for private ends.

#17 of 31 Posted Nov-7 7:24 AM

From Dave Tucker - SL- Posts 1975 Last Nov-24
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213506.17 213506.12 ]

I just don't like the idea of anyone being entitled to a seat in Congress for forty years.>>>

Since no one is "entitled" to a seat in Congress for any given number of years beyond the term for which they are elected, your dislike is of a chimera.

#18 of 31 Posted Nov-7 9:28 AM

From gordonhofer Posts 31345 Last Nov-24
To Dave Tucker - SL- [Msg # 213506.18 213506.17 ]

Since no one is "entitled" to a seat in Congress for any given number of years beyond the term for which they are elected, your dislike is of a chimera.

Since you obviously choose to overlook reality, your opinion is worthless.

#19 of 31 Posted Nov-7 12:14 PM

From Sysop Jim Dellon Posts 30303 Last Nov-24
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213506.19 213506.12 ]

hofer --

>>Pork for my state is pork taken away from your state. <<

One man's "pork" is another man's essential project. Perhaps you need to elect veteran legislators who know how to bring home the bacon.

>>Nope. I don't care who you elect. I just don't like the idea of anyone being entitled to a seat in Congress for forty years.<<

Ha!!! You do care who I elect - and in your brazen arrogance, you presume to dictate to me whom I can elect because of how long he's been an effective legislator. The only logical response to your misguided crusade is, this is a representative democracy, and when it come to who will represent me, Get Lost!

-- jim

#20 of 31 Posted Nov-7 1:09 PM

From David C. Posts 10302 Last 1:53 AM
To gordonhofer [Msg # 213506.20 213506.10 ]

A governing aristocracy is inconsistent with the principles of our founding.

Vote them out of office then. . . Simple.

What I can't understand is, if a person is interested in freedom, of all kinds, why they would support a restriction of freedom by putting arbitrary limits on how many times a person can be voted into office.

What if the person you voted for was the best person for the job? Why should that person not be able to be voted in to continue doing the job better than anybody else?

It's like telling Tiger Woods he can't enter any more tournaments because he has already won his full quota.

It's ridiculous to purposely restrict freedom in this way when there's a perfectly good way of getting rid of them if the electorate wants to.

-David C.

Edited Nov-7 by David C.

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Two Term Limits

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