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Moral Choices

Living Beyond One's Means

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#1 of 75

     Posted Oct-21 11:55 PM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 565  Last Nov-21
To  nullopus000      [Msg # 168334.1 ]    

So, you are aware that a way to change society according to the Communist Manifesto, is to destroy the meaning of marriage and family? Having one special person to love you your whole life is so pase. Of course, Carl wasn't that lovable, so, go figure, no wonder he equated females and marriage with prostitution....probably the only women that would associate with him...

Now, Christ was able to converse in Aramaic and Hebrew. His apostles had a handle on Greek and Latin. They were not as ignorant as you may think. And without a good marriage partner, one who is employed , you probably won't be able to afford a home nowadays, so kiss Uncle Marx good-night and thank him for helping make us a two income society.And hope your partner doesn't believe in divorce, like Jesus says, or you may lose you ever worked for in divorce court....

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#2 of 75

     Posted Oct-22 1:16 AM   
nullopus000
 
From  nullopus000  Posts 586  Last Nov-23
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168334.2 Message 168334.2 replying to 168334.1 168334.1 ]    
//So, you are aware that a way to change society according to the Communist Manifesto, is to destroy the meaning of marriage and family? Having one special person to love you your whole life is so pase. Of course, Carl wasn't that lovable, so, go figure, no wonder he equated females and marriage with prostitution....probably the only women that would associate with him...//

As a freethinker, I'm in favor of changing marriage and family to include same sex couples, racial couples, mixed religion couples, childless couples, and any combination of individuals (yes, polygamous) that can give consent to the marriage.

//Now, Christ was able to converse in Aramaic and Hebrew.//

Smattering of Aramaic, maybe; Hebrew, no.

//His apostles had a handle on Greek and Latin. They were not as ignorant as you may think.// 

So-called new testament was written in Greek not Latin.

//And without a good marriage partner, one who is employed , you probably won't be able to afford a home nowadays, so kiss Uncle Marx good-night and thank him for helping make us a two income society.//

None of my uncles are named "Marx".  Unchecked capitalism is the economic force that made America a two income society.

//And hope your partner doesn't believe in divorce, like Jesus says, or you may lose you ever worked for in divorce court....//

Nah, I divorced twice and never asked for alimony.  Always paid my own way, because I worked during both marriages.  Mortgage paid on current home.  Paid cash for two cars.  I'm debt free.  I give full credit to freethinking and rational planning.

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#3 of 75

     Posted Oct-22 5:57 AM   
George A
 
From  George A  Posts 10216  Last 12:11 AM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168334.3 Message 168334.3 replying to 168334.1 168334.1 ]    
>>So, you are aware that a way to change society according to the Communist Manifesto, is to destroy the meaning of marriage and family?<<

Exactly where does the Commnist Manifesto say that?  Have you read it?

What, exactly, do the authors propose as a way to do that?  Has any putatively communist political entity actually attempted that?

How successful were they?

>> Having one special person to love you your whole life is so pase.<<

Really?  Are you making this stuff up, or did you get it from somewhere else?

>>Of course, Carl wasn't that lovable, so, go figure, no wonder he equated females and marriage with prostitution....probably the only women that would associate with him...<<

Exactly where does Karl (not Carl) Marx do that?  Can you provide a valid quote, or is this just another example of your unsupportable claims?

The way I read it, Marx was decrying the way the women of the underclasses are seen by the bourgooisie as no better than prostitutes.

This makes me suspect that you've never read it at all, but merely read what someone else has said about it -- and gotten that wrong.



Edited Oct-22   by  George A

Edited Oct-22   by  Patricia O. [Stàff]
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#4 of 75

     Posted Oct-22 12:26 PM   
Patricia O. [Stàff]
 
From  Patricia O. [Stàff]  Posts 11222  Last 2:08 AM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168334.4 Message 168334.4 replying to 168334.1 168334.1 ]    
>>> without a good marriage partner, one who is employed , you probably won't be able to afford a home nowadays <<<
I don't think that's actually true, if people were still willing to live in the house size that was common for our parents and grandparents.   I bought a 1500-sq ft house about 11 years ago on one income, and it wasn't an issue.   But many people seem to think that they need big houses, and multiple cars, and big-screen TVs, etc.
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#5 of 75

     Posted Oct-22 3:50 PM   
Mark Mc
 
From  Mark Mc  Posts 11609  Last Nov-24
To  Patricia O. [Stàff]      [Msg # 168334.5 Message 168334.5 replying to 168334.4 168334.4 ]    
>>>But many people seem to think that they need big houses, and multiple cars, and big-screen TVs, etc.<<<

Just the last in my case.  :)  Oh, and a 5.1 surround sound system too!  And an upconverting DVD player.

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#6 of 75

     Posted Oct-22 3:55 PM   
Patricia O. [Stàff]
 
From  Patricia O. [Stàff]  Posts 11222  Last 2:08 AM
To  Mark Mc      [Msg # 168334.6 Message 168334.6 replying to 168334.5 168334.5 ]    
PO >>>But many people seem to think that they need big houses, and multiple cars, and big-screen TVs, etc.<<<

>>> Just the last in my case.  :)  Oh, and a 5.1 surround sound system too!  And an upconverting DVD player. <<<

[laughing]   I rest my case.

I watch some of the househunter shows on TV, and I'm astonished about the sort of house that people consider *necessary*.  And of course, it's a vicious cycle, because people watch those shows, and think "Me too!"   My somewhat-smaller house with out-of-date appliances is considered undesirable these days.
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#7 of 75

     Posted Oct-22 4:03 PM   
Mark Mc
 
From  Mark Mc  Posts 11609  Last Nov-24
To  Patricia O. [Stàff]      [Msg # 168334.7 Message 168334.7 replying to 168334.6 168334.6 ]    
>>>My somewhat-smaller house with out-of-date appliances is considered undesirable these days.<<<

I can relate.  My "real" house in Ohio is a tract house in a subdivision.  Down here, I live even more modestly.  I finally remembered to bring a camera, so I'll post some pics down the road.  Suffice to say, I live in under 500 square feet.  I do have a screened in porch, though (here they call 'em lanais) and a 32 inch 720p flat screen.  :)

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Messages 168334.8 through 168334.9 were moved to 168370.1

#10 of 75

     Posted Oct-23 9:44 AM   
Ivy [Staff]
 
From  Ivy [Staff]  Posts 17890  Last Nov-24
To  Patricia O. [Stàff]      [Msg # 168334.10 Message 168334.10 replying to 168334.6 168334.6 ]    
Patricia,

>> I watch some of the househunter shows on TV, and I'm astonished about the sort of house that people consider *necessary*. <<

Me, too! They have one little baby and they feel that they have outgrown their two and and three bedroom homes and need four bedroom McMansions with done over basements. 

What they really need is less crap. They buy too much baby junk. Babies are better off crawling around and exploring than living in plastic contraptions that cost a lot and take up so much space.

Many of their homes look like overcrowded daycare centers.

-Ivy


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Message 168334.11 was moved to 168370.3

#12 of 75

     Posted Oct-23 11:51 AM   
C Ellis UT
 
From  C Ellis UT  Posts 3503  Last Nov-24
To  Patricia O. [Stàff]      [Msg # 168334.12 Message 168334.12 replying to 168334.6 168334.6 ]    
>>> I watch some of the househunter shows on TV, and I'm astonished about the sort of house that people consider *necessary*.  And of course, it's a vicious cycle, because people watch those shows, and think "Me too!"   My somewhat-smaller house with out-of-date appliances is considered undesirable these days. <<<

I don't know if anyone has posted this video in the thread, but it makes a point.

Don't Buy Stuff You Cannot Afford (SNL)

-- Clair

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#13 of 75

     Posted Oct-23 2:51 PM   
Ivy [Staff]
 
From  Ivy [Staff]  Posts 17890  Last Nov-24
To  C Ellis UT      [Msg # 168334.13 Message 168334.13 replying to 168334.12 168334.12 ]    
Clair,

>> I don't know if anyone has posted this video in the thread, but it makes a point.

Don't Buy Stuff You Cannot Afford (SNL) <<

LOL!

-Ivy


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Message 168334.14 was moved to 168370.4

#15 of 75

     Posted Oct-27 9:07 PM   
mlkoutsky
 
From  mlkoutsky  Posts 565  Last Nov-21
To  George A      [Msg # 168334.15 Message 168334.15 replying to 168334.3 168334.3 ]    
<<<<Exactly where does the Commnist Manifesto say that? Have you read it?>>>
I read the Communist Manifesto in the 80's. Yes, it did address the role of women, marriage, and society and equated the relationship to that of the prostitute.
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Messages 168334.16 through 168334.17 were moved to 168370.5

#18 of 75

     Posted Oct-27 11:49 PM   
George A
 
From  George A  Posts 10216  Last 12:11 AM
To  mlkoutsky      [Msg # 168334.18 Message 168334.18 replying to 168334.15 168334.15 ]    
>><<<<Exactly where does the Commnist Manifesto say that? Have you read it?>>>


>>I read the Communist Manifesto in the 80's. Yes, it did address the role of women, marriage, and society and equated the relationship to that of the prostitute.<<

Oh, my!  What a lovely piece of distortion. 

Let's see the whole quote, if you dare.<g>

However, the idea that marriage was the equivalent of legal prostitution is not original with Marx.  Perhaps you're aware of the Saint-Simonians, in particular Bezard and Enfantin.

No?  Thought not.

Fourier had a different position.

But no matter.

Apparently you are unable to distinguish between the DEscriptive and the PREscriptive.

I doubt anyone can enlighten you on that.



The method of "postulating" what we want has many advantages; 
they are the same as the advantages of theft over honest toil.

Bertrand Russell


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#19 of 75

     Posted Oct-28 11:39 PM   
Zivatar
 
From  Zivatar  Posts 971  Last 12:41 AM
To  George A      [Msg # 168334.19 Message 168334.19 replying to 168334.18 168334.18 ]    
>Let's see the whole quote, if you dare.<g><

I suspect that this is what mlkoutsky is talking about:

Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common and thus, at the most, what the Communists might possibly be reproached with is that they desire to introduce, in substitution for a hypocritically concealed, an openly legalized system of free love.

Now I'm not sure whether mlkoutsky was right--it rather depends on whether one imagines Karl and Freddy to recognize a distinction between whore and slut. <g>
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#20 of 75

     Posted Oct-28 11:54 PM   
George A
 
From  George A  Posts 10216  Last 12:11 AM
To  Zivatar      [Msg # 168334.20 Message 168334.20 replying to 168334.19 168334.19 ]    
>>I suspect that this is what mlkoutsky is talking about:

Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common and thus, at the most, what the Communists might possibly be reproached with is that they desire to introduce, in substitution for a hypocritically concealed, an openly legalized system of free love.<<

Could be, but if that didn't happen in avowedly communist societies, I wonder why he/she/it thinks it's a current threat?


The method of "postulating" what we want has many advantages; 
they are the same as the advantages of theft over honest toil.

Bertrand Russell


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Moral Choices

Living Beyond One's Means

  
 
     

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