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Science and the Public

Asperger's - Too Loosely Defined To Use?

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#1 of 22

     Posted Nov-4 2:18 PM   
Emory Kimbrough
 
From  Emory Kimbrough  Posts 2007  Last Nov-24
To  All      [Msg # 129404.1 ]    
The next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual - the bible for psychologists and psychiatrists - may drop the term Asperger's completely, rejecting it as a term not linked to a unique and valid scientific definition.  What most people think of as Asperger's would be folded into broader category instead:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?_r=2&ref=science
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#2 of 22

     Posted Nov-4 4:55 PM   
Jon Woolf - Sysop
 
From  Jon Woolf - Sysop  Posts 1621  Last Nov-24
To  Emory Kimbrough      [Msg # 129404.2 Message 129404.2 replying to 129404.1 129404.1 ]    
First reaction: good.  Asperger's was so nebulously defined, and generally so harmless compared to other forms of "autism," that it was more trouble than it was worth.

Second reaction after reading the article: the psychs are totally out of control.  I was startled when I first read of Asperger's and other "mild forms of autism."  I was annoyed when "autism" was replaced by "autism spectrum disorder."  I was positively irritated when the diagnosis of "autism spectrum disorder" was expanded to include almost every kind of developmental problem.  The radio airwaves here are infested with PSAs spewing the ridiculous claim that "the chance of your child being autistic is 1 in 160," as if that percentage of kids are going to wind up mental and physical cripples with the full array of autism symptoms, all the way up to suicidal wall-bashing.  And now this?

These brain-drainers aren't going to be satisfied until they have every one of us diagnosed as mentally handicapped in some way.  Except for them and their fellow lefties, of course.

-- JSW
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#3 of 22

     Posted Nov-4 6:28 PM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 97  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.3 Message 129404.3 replying to 129404.2 129404.2 ]    
These brain-drainers aren't going to be satisfied until they have every one of us diagnosed as mentally handicapped in some way.<<

I wouldn't be at all surprised if all of us didn't have some psychological problem. No ones in perfect physical health either-those MDs won't rest till they call all of us diseased. I have poor eyesight, syringemyelia, arthritis, color-blindness, tinnitus, 4 herniated disc.....I have some minor psych issues that I'm aware of . And I'd bet that everyone, if the truth were fully known, would fail to be perfectly healthy-in every regard-both physically and mentally.
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#4 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 12:27 AM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  dave      [Msg # 129404.4 Message 129404.4 replying to 129404.3 129404.3 ]    

//And I'd bet that everyone, if the truth were fully known, would fail to be perfectly healthy-in every regard-both physically and mentally.//

Nothing wrong with me - except the flu every other decade or so.

James Freeman
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#5 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 12:28 AM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.5 Message 129404.5 replying to 129404.2 129404.2 ]    

//the psychs are totally out of control.//

Call them what they are: psychobabblers.

Generally, but not always, lefties. There are right-wing Christian psychobabblers out there, too.

James Freeman
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#6 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 2:54 AM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 97  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.6 Message 129404.6 replying to 129404.4 129404.4 ]    
Nothing wrong with me - except the flu every other decade or so.<<

I'd bet you money that your hearing does not respopnd to higher frequency ounds as well as it did when you were 17
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#7 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 3:06 AM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 97  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.7 Message 129404.7 replying to 129404.5 129404.5 ]    

//the psychs are totally out of control.//

Call them what they are: psychobabblers.

Generally, but not always, lefties. There are right-wing Christian psychobabblers out there, too.<<


This, of course, is absolutely false. There is a lot of good, serious science done in psychology departments.

There are plainly serious mental illness. John Nash, for instance, was seriously ill with  legitimate disease. And the treatment of such illness has improved-greatly- in the last century

There are quacks in mental health. There are quacks in other medical specialties. There are quacks in math and physics, I know why you say what you did-the social sciences do have a disporportionate number of nutjob, giving the whole field a bad name. I worked for a while on a 'social science' research project. Collecting and a little analyzing of data. I had a very low opinion of that research even before I saw the paper that issued from it: a paper that was flatly fraudulent. A lot of what comes from those areas of academia I drench with salt.

But there's also a lot of excellent and important science done in psych departments



"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#8 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 6:45 AM   
Francis X. Neumann, Jr.
 
From  Francis X. Neumann, Jr.  Posts 4036  Last Nov-24
To  dave      [Msg # 129404.8 Message 129404.8 replying to 129404.7 129404.7 ]    
>>...flatly fraudulent...<<

I read that as "fraudly flatulent."

Frank
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#9 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 8:43 AM   
Francis X. Neumann, Jr.
 
From  Francis X. Neumann, Jr.  Posts 4036  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.9 Message 129404.9 replying to 129404.2 129404.2 ]    

>>I was annoyed when "autism" was replaced by "autism spectrum disorder."  I was positively irritated when the diagnosis of "autism spectrum disorder" was expanded to include almost every kind of developmental problem.<<

You want to see a spectrum?  Stop by the library, when we open the doors to the homeless crowd in the front at 0900 this morning.

Frank 

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#10 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 8:54 AM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  dave      [Msg # 129404.10 Message 129404.10 replying to 129404.7 129404.7 ]    

//There are plainly serious mental illness.//

There is indeed brain desease, which does affect behavior. But barring physical brain desease, there is no such thing as mental illness - it is a myth. There are bad choices made - but they are choices.

James Freeman
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#11 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 9:54 AM   
Jon Woolf - Sysop
 
From  Jon Woolf - Sysop  Posts 1621  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.11 Message 129404.11 replying to 129404.10 129404.10 ]    
>> But barring physical brain desease, there is no such thing as mental illness - it is a myth. There are bad choices made - but they are choices. <<

This is going too far the other direction.  Yes, a lot of psych is psychobabble, and a lot of currently-defined "psychological disorders" are purest utterbunkum.  But that doesn't mean that all mental illness is mythical. 

-- JSW
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#12 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 11:34 AM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.12 Message 129404.12 replying to 129404.11 129404.11 ]    

Nope. Mental Illness is a myth. It is nothing more or less than a means of societal oppression of non-comformers.

http://www.szasz.com/updates.htm

James Freeman
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#13 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 12:06 PM   
Jon Woolf - Sysop
 
From  Jon Woolf - Sysop  Posts 1621  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.13 Message 129404.13 replying to 129404.12 129404.12 ]    
<snork>

Right.  And the past is a fiction designed to account for the discrepancy between my imemdiate physical sensations and my state of mind. 

Sorry.  I have little respect for the field of psychiatry, but what you claim is the psych version of Last Tuesdayism, and that's a little too extreme for me.

-- JSW
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#14 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 1:26 PM   
Francis X. Neumann, Jr.
 
From  Francis X. Neumann, Jr.  Posts 4036  Last Nov-24
To  All      [Msg # 129404.14 Message 129404.14 replying to 129404.9 129404.9 ]    

Just passed by my desk...

A woman in her 60s, pushing a huge cart of all her worldly possession.  She's wearing a coat and a parka, boots and a ball cap, with earphones and a surgical mask.

 

 

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#15 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 5:38 PM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.15 Message 129404.15 replying to 129404.13 129404.13 ]    

I remind you of what the psychobabblers did to Alan Turing.

Up until the 1970s, homosexuality was defined as a mental illness in the psychobabbler Bible.

Now, unable to learn from their mistakes, the psychobabblers have defined homophobia to be a mental illness. Now, disliking fags may be bigotry, but it is a choice, not an illness.

James Freeman
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#16 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 8:21 PM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.16 Message 129404.16 replying to 129404.11 129404.11 ]    

I see that the Ft Hood shooter was a shrink - a psychobabbler.

Why does that not surprise me?

James Freeman
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#17 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 9:14 PM   
dave
 
From  dave  Posts 97  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.17 Message 129404.17 replying to 129404.15 129404.15 ]    
Now, unable to learn from their mistakes, the psychobabblers have defined homophobia to be a mental illness.<<

News to me.

Turing was victimized by the British criminal code

Anyway,no field of study has a past free from error. Certainly not medicine, nor physics.
"Any fool can appreciate California. To appreciate Kansas requires subtlety and character and
attention.
" --Wes Jackson
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#18 of 22

     Posted Nov-5 10:21 PM   
Jon Woolf - Sysop
 
From  Jon Woolf - Sysop  Posts 1621  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.18 Message 129404.18 replying to 129404.16 129404.16 ]    
He was also a midlevel officer who recently got a bad FitRep. 

And, apparently, a devout Muslim.

And, apparently, strongly against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And, apparently, had at least a six-month history of posts at various Web sites about suicide bombings and other threats. 

When considering likely motivations, I think his MOS is rather low on the list.

-- JSW
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#19 of 22

     Posted Nov-6 2:42 AM   
JamesSFreeman
 
From  JamesSFreeman  Posts 1962  Last Nov-24
To  Jon Woolf - Sysop      [Msg # 129404.19 Message 129404.19 replying to 129404.18 129404.18 ]    

The Major was clearly committing suicide - suicide by cop - one of the cruelest of all choices.

Why is it that shrinks and other psychobabblers have a much hgher suicide rate than the population as a whole? Their knowledge is demonstrably not very useful. And certainly not scientific.

James Freeman
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#20 of 22

     Posted Nov-6 7:22 AM   
Jon Woolf - Sysop
 
From  Jon Woolf - Sysop  Posts 1621  Last Nov-24
To  JamesSFreeman      [Msg # 129404.20 Message 129404.20 replying to 129404.19 129404.19 ]    
Judging his motives at this point is foolish.  He's still alive, so at the very least he'll be intensively questioned about his actions.  If he talks, we'll know.  If he's so fanatical that he refuses to talk, even facing multiple death sentences ... well, then we'll know too.

>> Why is it that shrinks and other psychobabblers have a much hgher suicide rate than the population as a whole? <<

Probably for the same reason that law-enforcement officers have one of the highest suicide rates known: they deal with enough concentrated dark-side energy to overflow anybody's cup.

-- JSW
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Science and the Public

Asperger's - Too Loosely Defined To Use?

  
 
     

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