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Message Area
Congress

Obama to Sign Gay Hate Crimes Bill

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#1 of 88

     Posted Oct-23 7:51 AM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  All      [Msg # 213388.1 ]    
A bill that extends hate crime protections to gays is now on its way to President Obama's desk.  The president is expected to sign it.

Democrats attached it to a "must-pass $680 billion defense policy bill" and the Senate passed it 68 - 29.  The House passed the bill earlier this month.  By the way, the bill also makes it a federal crime to attack U.S. service members on account of their service.

Of the 29 votes against passage of the defense bill all but one were from Republicans who objected to the hate crimes protection being extended to gays.

You can read more about it here:

Congress extends hate crime protections to gays

What do you think about this legislation?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Do you foresee any problems with this new law?

What do you think about the fact that 28 of 40 Republicans just voted against a defense bill while all but one Democrat voted for it?

Tell us what you think.



"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus



Edited Oct-26   by  Sysop Alex Krislov
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#2 of 88

     Posted Oct-23 3:15 PM   
Henry D.
 
From  Henry D.  Posts 567  Last Nov-9
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.2 Message 213388.2 replying to 213388.1 213388.1 ]    

What do you think about this legislation?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Do you foresee any problems with this new law?

What do you think about the fact that 28 of 40 Republicans just voted against a defense bill while all but one Democrat voted for it?

Tell us what you think.

(HD) Its a pointless act to get the gay vote. It wont stop one person from hating someone because of sexual preference. If the death penalty is no deterrent to murder as the left claims! Do you honestly think this will stop someone from carrying out violent attacks against gay people? This is nothing more then Democrats using A defense bill to pander to gays for their vote! I would say it pretty pathetic that only one Democrat seen this for what it really is.

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#3 of 88

     Posted Oct-23 6:49 PM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  Henry D.      [Msg # 213388.3 Message 213388.3 replying to 213388.2 213388.2 ]    
>> Its a pointless act to get the gay vote. It wont stop one person from hating someone because of sexual preference. If the death penalty is no deterrent to murder as the left claims! Do you honestly think this will stop someone from carrying out violent attacks against gay people? This is nothing more then Democrats using A defense bill to pander to gays for their vote! I would say it pretty pathetic that only one Democrat seen this for what it really is. <<

So do you feel the same way about all hate crimes laws (including those that specify federal or state penalties for attacks motivated by a victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or sex), or do you only object to the one just passed that specifies federal penalties for attacks motivated by a victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability?

Let me know, okay?

Thanks.



"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus


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#4 of 88

     Posted Oct-23 8:04 PM   
Henry D.
 
From  Henry D.  Posts 567  Last Nov-9
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.4 Message 213388.4 replying to 213388.3 213388.3 ]    

So do you feel the same way about all hate crimes laws (including those that specify federal or state penalties for attacks motivated by a victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or sex#, or do you only object to the one just passed that specifies federal penalties for attacks motivated by a victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability?

 #HD)  All of them.  Hate has always been here and always will be! I feel the full existent of the law should be brought to bare on any and all crime! I think its time to stop talking equality and start to apply it.

 And thank you as well!


Edited Oct-23   by  Henry D.
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#5 of 88

     Posted Oct-23 8:49 PM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  Henry D.      [Msg # 213388.5 Message 213388.5 replying to 213388.4 213388.4 ]    
>> Hate has always been here and always will be! <<

It certainly seems to be thriving in the right-wing lunatic fringe.




"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus


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#6 of 88

     Posted Oct-24 10:07 AM   
Henry D.
 
From  Henry D.  Posts 567  Last Nov-9
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.6 Message 213388.6 replying to 213388.5 213388.5 ]    
As well as here I see!
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#7 of 88

     Posted Oct-25 10:34 PM   
nullopus000
 
From  nullopus000  Posts 48  Last Nov-2
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.7 Message 213388.7 replying to 213388.1 213388.1 ]    
//What do you think about this legislation?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing?...

Tell us what you think.//

I think the legislation is a good thing to protect Americans.  The road to full equality for all Americans is long with no end in sight at this pace.  But progress is a good thing.
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#8 of 88

     Posted Oct-25 10:58 PM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  nullopus000      [Msg # 213388.8 Message 213388.8 replying to 213388.7 213388.7 ]    
>> I think the legislation is a good thing to protect Americans.  The road to full equality for all Americans is long with no end in sight at this pace.  But progress is a good thing. <<

Well, yes, progress is a good thing, but I would say that while the end may not be in sight quite yet it's safe to say that we'll reach it before the end of the century, and probably a lot sooner than that.

Oh, sure, there will still be some bigots around, but they will be as detested and marginalized as that Justice of the Peace from Louisiana who refuses to marry interracial couples now is.




"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus


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#9 of 88

     Posted Oct-25 11:32 PM   
nullopus000
 
From  nullopus000  Posts 48  Last Nov-2
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.9 Message 213388.9 replying to 213388.8 213388.8 ]    
//Oh, sure, there will still be some bigots around, but they will be as detested and marginalized as that Justice of the Peace from Louisiana who refuses to marry interracial couples now is.//

Yes, I was heartened at the swift "outing" of his depraved behavior and the almost national uproar.
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#10 of 88

     Posted Oct-25 11:35 PM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  nullopus000      [Msg # 213388.10 Message 213388.10 replying to 213388.9 213388.9 ]    
>> Yes, I was heartened at the swift "outing" of his depraved behavior and the almost national uproar. <<

Yes, there were very few who came to his defense, and those who did came off looking exactly like the damned bigots they are.




"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus


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#11 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 12:20 PM   
nukem
 
From  nukem  Posts 11766  Last 8:32 AM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.11 Message 213388.11 replying to 213388.5 213388.5 ]    

>> Hate has always been here and always will be! <<

It certainly seems to be thriving in the right-wing lunatic fringe.
 

It certainly thrives on the left-wing lunatic fringe as well.

gary

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#12 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 1:46 PM   
Michael Hoffman SL
 
From  Michael Hoffman SL  Posts 25674  Last 9:43 AM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.12 Message 213388.12 replying to 213388.3 213388.3 ]    
I object to all so-called hate crimes laws. If someone beats, maims or kills a person there are already laws on the books that call for punishment. It makes absolutely no difference  why a person committed the crime, as long as the act was illegal in the first place. Everyone should be protected equally, and making thought a crime leads down many roads that a truly free people do not seek to travel.
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#13 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 1:47 PM   
Michael Hoffman SL
 
From  Michael Hoffman SL  Posts 25674  Last 9:43 AM
To  Henry D.      [Msg # 213388.13 Message 213388.13 replying to 213388.6 213388.6 ]    (Unread)
Clearly here!
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#14 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 4:49 PM   
res946
 
From  res946  Posts 12  Last Oct-29
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.14 Message 213388.14 replying to 213388.1 213388.1 ]    
Pretty tricky, don't you think, attaching a defense bill to it?
As far as the bill itself, there is now way to stop mans hatred
towards another because of sexual preference, or any perceived
difference. Small minded people need more than a law to make
them change their behavior towrds others.
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#15 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 5:04 PM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  res946      [Msg # 213388.15 Message 213388.15 replying to 213388.14 213388.14 ]    
>> Pretty tricky, don't you think, attaching a defense bill to it? <<

I'd say attaching it to the defense bill was an unfortunate necessity to get the legislation passed and signed into law over the objections of a bunch of close-minded bigots.




"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus


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#16 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 5:48 PM   
bhavecats
 
From  bhavecats  Posts 1  Last Oct-26
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.16 Message 213388.16 replying to 213388.1 213388.1 ]    
dear Congress,   My name is Mary bridgett LaCombe, you can set principles and have all the right intentions, but the other party may  not get it.  I was treated badly and hurt because of my disability and nothing was done:  I need a job at home to support myself:  The condition i have is worse,  I am afaid of a nursing home because of abuse and neglect of my deceased grandmother:  I think joblink should be required to submit documents of the businesses they go to:  The able should help others and not worry about payment:  Most Americans are greedy and social security laws for married disabled and single need to change: the gay gentlemen I knew cleaned my house for free:  I am looking at the person not the bedroom act:  bridgett       
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#17 of 88

     Posted Oct-26 8:09 PM   
tkfuzzkid
 
From  tkfuzzkid  Posts 3  Last Nov-23
To  All      [Msg # 213388.17 Message 213388.17 replying to 213388.16 213388.16 ]    

Henry D. makes a valid point which you try to brush away, and that is:  that hate has always been here and always will.  This is true.  Think back thru history - it's all about somebody or some group hating someone else.  And in between all the moments of hate and conflict, we have had some shining moments of peace and good will and creativity. 

The other Michael Hoffman also makes a good point, that all people should be protected under the law regardless of race, color, etc.  And I believe our laws already do this. 

I agree that this law is nothing but an attempt to get on the good side of a particular group.  What concerns me about laws like this is that in the interpretation of them, they can be used in ways that the people who passed them never intended them to be used.  Will it be used to prosecute people who don't like homosexuality and say so publicly?  Could it be used to attack people who simply don't like homosexuality? 

Yes, I think it could - and most probably will - be used in ways that they never intended.  But it is on the books now.  Our whole government is a horrible snarl of laws that even lawyers have a hard time keeping up with.  It is full of waste and pandering.  And that is the whole problem right now. 

Instead of concentrating on useful, helpful, truly needed laws - our government spends it's time passing unneeded laws, that only serve to further complicate our already tangled legal system. 

Cite cases and incidents that show this law is truly needed, and that other laws do not address or already cover?  Can you do that?  Could our government who passed this law?  I doubt it.

-- Jacqueline

 

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#18 of 88

     Posted Oct-27 3:17 AM   
bermudaswartz
 
From  bermudaswartz  Posts 121  Last 10:37 AM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.18 Message 213388.18 replying to 213388.1 213388.1 ]    
[What do you think about this legislation?]

Bad idea.

Hate crimes while despicable are for the most part free  speech.  There are reasonable  limits physical harm etc.. is a crime alone  without a 'hate'  tag.

A white supremacist may not like the black, jew etc.. some xtians may hate gay  but has a right to express his/her opinion in a peaceful manner.  IMHO When opinions are no longer peaceful a crime is committed  and there is an expected penalty for beating up a gay, Jew or a white supremacist.

It has been my experience that hate crimes are not equally enforced. There was a local incident some years ago. Six black high school kids mugged 9-10 college students, Indian, Mexican, Chinese, White  etc.. with racial slurs thrown in at the beating.  The kids were originally charged with hate crimes.  While obviously hate crimes in the end the kids were not charged with  'hate'  only for the mugging.  The excuse was they were equal opportunity muggers as the mug(ees) were of mixed nationality.  Had they mugged all indians that would have been 'hate'.
Frankly I find that absurd. Oddly enough I  blame the decision on  the local KKK!

When the KKK came into the mix  praising the 'hate crimes' charge nobody in the legal system wanted to be on the same side as the KKK. So the charges were reduced. Good manners would dictate those black kids thank the Klan.


 


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#19 of 88

     Posted Oct-27 3:59 AM   
Michael H.
 
From  Michael H.  Posts 3455  Last 5:29 AM
To  bermudaswartz      [Msg # 213388.19 Message 213388.19 replying to 213388.18 213388.18 ]    
>> Hate crimes while despicable are for the most part free  speech. <<

So if a gang of white men beat an elderly Mexican-American man to within an inch of his life just because he has brown skin, that's your idea of "free speech?"

Really?




"You have absolutely no reason, none,
to trust our words or our actions at this point."

-- Michael Steele, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, Feb 13th, 2009




Free Your Mind.  Free Yourself.
Ferrapontifex Invictus


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#20 of 88

     Posted Oct-27 10:50 AM   
Michael Hoffman SL
 
From  Michael Hoffman SL  Posts 25674  Last 9:43 AM
To  Michael H.      [Msg # 213388.20 Message 213388.20 replying to 213388.19 213388.19 ]    

>So if a gang of white men beat an elderly Mexican-American man to within an inch of his life just because he has brown skin, that's your idea of "free speech?"<

That's not my idea of free speech, but I have to wonder whether there are not already laws against beating someone within an inch of his life. I mean, I thought such acts were illegal and punishable by prison sentences, fines, etc.

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Congress

Obama to Sign Gay Hate Crimes Bill

  
 
     
 
 

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